La Vuelta thread -- spoilers allowed once the race starts - Page 3
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  1. #51
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    They've been a victim of what they did many times in the past. Valverde specifically has been a victim of it. He's the one that eventually overrode his DS to call it off as well. Sanchez has defended the Movistar riders as he said they were just following orders from the team car.

    Stage 20 was great. Pogacar earned that last podium spot today. Valverde said after the stage that his radio wasn't working and he had no idea that Pogacar had as much of a lead as he did until the fans started yelling at him on the final climb that he was in danger of losing his podium spot. Roglic rode a very good race to earn the win. I think the final podium is the correct 3 riders as they were the strongest and most consistent throughout the 3 weeks. Valverde has earned several records with this podium. Most Vuelta podiums, most years between first and most recent (or last) podium in any Grand Tour, and most Grand Tour top 10's. Also ties Indurain for most Grand Tour podiums by a Spaniard (with 9). He's the big question is the age difference between Valverde and Pogacar the largest age difference for two podium finishers in a Grand Tour?

    I also think this podium is very symbolic of a passing of the torch from Valverde's generation to the next two generations.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoroninK View Post
    They've been a victim of what they did many times in the past. Valverde specifically has been a victim of it.
    that doesn't justify their lack of ethics and they have a record of having done this in the past
    He's the one that eventually overrode his DS to call it off as well.
    only when he was getting an earful from a variety of riders from different teams. When it all came back together Valverde skulked back to the middle of the peloton and wouldn't make eye contact with his rivals. He knew they had been out of order.
    Sanchez has defended the Movistar riders as he said they were just following orders from the team car.
    That has never been an acceptable defence in any sphere.

    Stage 20 was great. Pogacar earned that last podium spot today. Valverde said after the stage that his radio wasn't working and he had no idea that Pogacar had as much of a lead as he did until the fans started yelling at him on the final climb that he was in danger of losing his podium spot. Roglic rode a very good race to earn the win. I think the final podium is the correct 3 riders as they were the strongest and most consistent throughout the 3 weeks. Valverde has earned several records with this podium. Most Vuelta podiums, most years between first and most recent (or last) podium in any Grand Tour, and most Grand Tour top 10's. Also ties Indurain for most Grand Tour podiums by a Spaniard (with 9). He's the big question is the age difference between Valverde and Pogacar the largest age difference for two podium finishers in a Grand Tour?

    I also think this podium is very symbolic of a passing of the torch from Valverde's generation to the next two generations.
    Well let's just hope these Vuelta results stand. As for young riders, yes it is good to see them come through but let's give it a couple of years. Sometimes young performance levels don't carry through to later years.

    Anyway. it has been a good Vuelta, although a bit unusual in that some of the flat stages were the most exciting. e.g. Gilbert spinning out at 110rpm on a 54x11 on the flat is crazy.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoroninK View Post
    They've been a victim of what they did many times in the past. Valverde specifically has been a victim of it. .
    When was that?
    Being in the leaders jersey and attacked while being in an accident.
    Just a couple of the "many" will suffice.
    Blows your hair back.

  4. #54
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    2012 Vuelta Valverde in leaders jersey, Sky attacks when he was involved in a crash.
    2012 Tour Sky attacked as soon as they heard Valverde had a mechanical issue.
    Then we have 2015 Giro when Astana attacked Contador, leader, when he had an issue.



    Yes it's true that young results often don't translate into a rider have a long career of results. Most riders have around a 5 year time frame to get their results and early riders with great results many times start declining early, while riders who hit their peak in their late 20's are more likely to do well into their early 30's.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoroninK View Post
    2012 Vuelta Valverde in leaders jersey, Sky attacks when he was involved in a crash.
    2012 Tour Sky attacked as soon as they heard Valverde had a mechanical issue.
    Then we have 2015 Giro when Astana attacked Contador, leader, when he had an issue.
    .
    On the Vuelta example, Sky were at the front and drilling it before Valverde crashed. That is entirely different.
    I can remember one example when Valverde was attacked after a puncture but that was by Vacansoleil and they said quite clearly that it was pay back for a previous unethical attack by Movistar.

    It is odd that it is always Movistar and their tactics that the peloton despise - or maybe it isn’t

    PS I heard that the one reason that Valverde attacked after the crash is because he thought Quintana had come down. Completely untrue of course but given Movistar’s tactics, who knows?

    Anyway.... good Vuelta I look forward to seeing the leading riders compete with the likes of Bernal, Dumolin, Froome (maybe - not sure how he will recover and he is getting his old-ish), Yates etc. Should be good

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoroninK View Post
    2012 Vuelta Valverde in leaders jersey, Sky attacks when he was involved in a crash.
    2012 Tour Sky attacked as soon as they heard Valverde had a mechanical issue.
    Then we have 2015 Giro when Astana attacked Contador, leader, when he had an issue.
    So now you want to bring up past history to support your case. I have no interest in reviewing past history, but did you ever think that maybe Valverde would have said to himself " gee that hurt my feelings and they were slime balls for doing that to me therefore (being the nice guy that I am) I have to remember to never ever do that to anyone"? No? Obviously neither did Valverde.

    Look, we know Valverde has won a Tour and rainbow jersey. Valverde has also doped, cheated, lied and screwed team mates over ...some of which he did during this Vuelta. It's obvious you want to portray Valverde as a superhero but Valverde will always be remembered (by the majority of us) as guy who won a Tour, won a rainbow jersey, a doper, a cheater, a liar and a person who screwed team mates over. You may think otherwise and that's ok, but please don't piss down our backs and tell us it's raining.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoroninK View Post
    2012 Vuelta Valverde in leaders jersey, Sky attacks when he was involved in a crash.
    2012 Tour Sky attacked as soon as they heard Valverde had a mechanical issue.
    Then we have 2015 Giro when Astana attacked Contador, leader, when he had an issue.



    Yes it's true that young results often don't translate into a rider have a long career of results. Most riders have around a 5 year time frame to get their results and early riders with great results many times start declining early, while riders who hit their peak in their late 20's are more likely to do well into their early 30's.
    first one as pointed out was a crash after attack was made.
    Second one, two riders had the yellow jersey 2012, Cancellara, Wiggins. Not sure what you hope to bring up with that.
    I had no idea Contador was actually Valverde. He must be unless you would not have brought Contador up would you?
    Blows your hair back.

  8. #58
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    2015 Giro is an example of a team doing it and a team that is not named Movistar, to show that teams do this and it's not something new or something that only Movistar does. 2017 Giro, yes Movistar did do that to Sky and they stated afterwards that it payback to Sky for what Sky had done to Valverde. It seems that yes there is an unwritten rule, but that it does get ignored from by multiple teams for different reasons.

    Now not pulling the cars so riders can use the caravan to catch up is actually within the rules, because the rule about pulling cars is specifically for only when riders are dropped not when riders get dropped due to mechanicals or crashes.

    As for the doping, well if you don't think the entire peloton was doping when Valverde was a new pro then you're naive. It would also be wrong to assume he's doing anything differently today than anyone else in the peloton and would actually be less likely to be pushing the limits as much as riders who don't have a ban.

    As for this Vuelta, it's not his fault Quintana didn't have the legs, nor is it his fault Quintana had a very bad ITT.

  9. #59
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    Congratulations to Roglic, Valverde, and Pogacar on their podium positions. They were the 3 strongest and most consistent riders throughout the Vuelta. On one podium we see the past (Valverde), the present (Roglic) and the future (Pogacar) of the sport together. For Valverde this podium sets several records. The most all-time Vuelta podiums (7), largest number of years between first and most recent (or last) Grand Tour podium (16), most all-time Grand Tour top 10's (19), and ties Indurain for most all-time Grand Tour podiums for a Spaniard (9). Also interesting the age differences between all 3 of the podium finishers with Valverde at 39, Roglic at 29 and Pogacar at 20, we have 3 different generations of riders on this podium.
    Also congratulations to all the different winners and all the riders who finished la Vuelta.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoroninK View Post
    2015 Giro is an example of a team doing it and a team that is not named Movistar, to show that teams do this and it's not something new or something that only Movistar does. 2017 Giro, yes Movistar did do that to Sky and they stated afterwards that it payback to Sky for what Sky had done to Valverde. It seems that yes there is an unwritten rule, but that it does get ignored from by multiple teams for different reasons.
    in other words: "They've been a victim of what they did many times in the past. Valverde specifically has been a victim of it. " seems to be unfounded.
    Blows your hair back.

  11. #61
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    Valverde today (while still in Madrid doing some sponsor and media stuff) was specifically asked about what happened with the team attacking after the crash. His response was that the order was from the DS and he didn't like it and spent some time arguing with the DS. Then debated about what to do and what the worst thing that could happen if he overrode the DS's orders and finally decided he'd had enough and called it off.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoroninK View Post
    Valverde today (while still in Madrid doing some sponsor and media stuff) was specifically asked about what happened with the team attacking after the crash. His response was that the order was from the DS and he didn't like it and spent some time arguing with the DS. Then debated about what to do and what the worst thing that could happen if he overrode the DS's orders and finally decided he'd had enough and called it off.
    Looks like the PR team went into the Red on this one and have done a bit of retrospective whitewashing. The peloton know the real story.

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