How much is too much?
Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. #1
    Jack of no trades
    Reputation: Wood Devil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,578

    How much is too much?

    I need to improve my sprint. I do a lot of Zwift racing, and while I'm always right there in every race, I'm always getting beat by riders that have that higher peak power. Simply put, I can't muster the power needed to outsprint anyone.

    As it is right now I can maybe, on a good day, muster a bit over 11w/kg for 15 seconds. Normally I'm around 9.5-10w/kg. And that's rather pathetic.

    Naturally, to get better, you need to train. But I'm not sure if I'm over-training. A typical week consist of roughly 12 hours with a TSS of 700 to 800. Of the seven days, Monday is usually easy recovery, while Tuesdays and Wednesdays are difficult races or training, Thursday endurance, Friday another racing/training day, Saturday active recovery or endurance, and Sunday more training.

    But I'm not really putting out more than 10-15 minutes or so worth of anaerobic and neuromuscular work per race event or training session (which involves one or two dedicated days of 10-15 sec sprint intervals x 10). That doesn't seem like a whole hell of a lot to me. So should I putting more time into sprints and 40/20s, or should I back off a bit?

    Also, how in the hell would one fit in strength training with weights? My legs are always tired and it seems like it will be more damaging than beneficial.
    Last edited by Wood Devil; 07-13-2019 at 11:26 AM.

  2. #2
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,725
    Quote Originally Posted by Wood Devil View Post
    My legs are always tired and it seems like it will be more damaging than beneficial.
    Sounds like a sign of overtraining. The guys who do that and benefit from are in their 20's and early 30's max, I bet. IOW, it has to be tailored to the individual's age.

  3. #3
    Pay heed people
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    545
    It really sounds like you're training too hard. Well, not really too hard, just hard all the time. You'll get a lot more out of your sessions if you rest too. At 12 hours of training per week, hitting a TSS of 700-800 is just too much.

    Let's break this down -
    6 Days of riding. Assuming you don't just do 2 hours per day and it's more like:

    Monday - Rest
    Tuesday - 1 hour
    Wednesday - 2 hours
    Thursday - 1 hour
    Friday - 2 hours
    Saturday - 4 hours
    Sunday - 2 hours

    Then what you ought to consider is a workout schedule such as:

    Monday - off the bike completely or cross training (weights, swimming, running)
    Tuesday - Hard intervals (harder than you've been doing - over-unders, or 40/20s, or sprints)
    Wednesday - Rest ride - just spin lightly and don't go over 50TSS (maybe a couple openers)
    Thursday - Moderately hard effort - Over-unders again, Tempo, Sweet spot
    Friday - Zwift race if you're so inclined
    Saturday - Spirited group ride outdoors - attack some segments if you want
    Sunday - Coffee shop/easy ride

    It sounds like it would be "too easy" of a regimen, but if you're going all out more than 2 times a week, you're overdoing it (assuming you're not pro or planning on going pro, which at 12 hours a week, I'm guessing not). The body needs time to adapt to the hard days that you're doing and if you just go hard all the time, there is no adaptation. You MIGHT see small gains in a short amount of time, but you'll hit a brick wall fast.

    And yes, in some of your hard days efforts, you should focus on sprints. 10 w/kg isn't going to get you a win. That being said, I'm a very small dude (5'10", 139 pounds) with a sprint of around 850W. I don't win a lot of sprints (duh), but I'm constantly placing at the front of packs - not because of power but because of strategy. Find the guy or guys that you know will be at the finish in the top 3 and follow them.

    Or, if your 2 to 3 minute power is strong, forget the sprint and go for a 1k flier. Races that I've won have always been from break aways. Little dudes with lower sprint power just have a hard time in sprints.

  4. #4
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Srode's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    3,377
    your interval days don't drive up TSS much but take recovery time to capitalize on them - to have a TSS in the range you noted sure sounds like you aren't taking enough recovery with those. How often are you taking a rest week?
    Gravel Rocks

    Trek Domane
    Niner RLT9 (Gravel Bike)
    Trek Crockett

  5. #5
    Jack of no trades
    Reputation: Wood Devil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,578
    Quote Originally Posted by Corenfa View Post
    It really sounds like you're training too hard. Well, not really too hard, just hard all the time. You'll get a lot more out of your sessions if you rest too. At 12 hours of training per week, hitting a TSS of 700-800 is just too much.

    Let's break this down -
    6 Days of riding. Assuming you don't just do 2 hours per day and it's more like:

    Monday - Rest
    Tuesday - 1 hour
    Wednesday - 2 hours
    Thursday - 1 hour
    Friday - 2 hours
    Saturday - 4 hours
    Sunday - 2 hours

    Then what you ought to consider is a workout schedule such as:

    Monday - off the bike completely or cross training (weights, swimming, running)
    Tuesday - Hard intervals (harder than you've been doing - over-unders, or 40/20s, or sprints)
    Wednesday - Rest ride - just spin lightly and don't go over 50TSS (maybe a couple openers)
    Thursday - Moderately hard effort - Over-unders again, Tempo, Sweet spot
    Friday - Zwift race if you're so inclined
    Saturday - Spirited group ride outdoors - attack some segments if you want
    Sunday - Coffee shop/easy ride

    It sounds like it would be "too easy" of a regimen, but if you're going all out more than 2 times a week, you're overdoing it (assuming you're not pro or planning on going pro, which at 12 hours a week, I'm guessing not). The body needs time to adapt to the hard days that you're doing and if you just go hard all the time, there is no adaptation. You MIGHT see small gains in a short amount of time, but you'll hit a brick wall fast.

    And yes, in some of your hard days efforts, you should focus on sprints. 10 w/kg isn't going to get you a win. That being said, I'm a very small dude (5'10", 139 pounds) with a sprint of around 850W. I don't win a lot of sprints (duh), but I'm constantly placing at the front of packs - not because of power but because of strategy. Find the guy or guys that you know will be at the finish in the top 3 and follow them.

    Or, if your 2 to 3 minute power is strong, forget the sprint and go for a 1k flier. Races that I've won have always been from break aways. Little dudes with lower sprint power just have a hard time in sprints.
    Great information! That's what I was looking for. Thank you.

    What I'm doing now is Mondays off or easy recovery; Tuesday I hit the Skydkysten Carl Ras race which is a 4 lap Innsbruck, and then I've been doing sprints (5 sets of five @ 12 to 15 sec), about a 2 hour day. Wednesday I'm going to be looking at some Tempo/Endurance low cadence intervals (didn't follow the game plan today and attempted racing with sore legs, flamed out and threw in the sweat soaked towel), about a 1:45 worth with warm up and cool down; Thursday low Zone 2 for 90 min; Friday some 1 min efforts into endurance; Saturday Recovery; Sunday the 1 Lap UCI Richmond race into sweet spot for another 2hr session.

    My sprint in the Sydkysten race yesterday topped out at 872w, which ain't half bad. But having done fifteen additional sprints after that as part of the post race workout, I should have known better than to try and race again today. So instead of endurance tomorrow, I might just go recovery mode and chill out.

  6. #6
    Jack of no trades
    Reputation: Wood Devil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,578
    Another problem is with that Xert. If I followed their program I'd be in a wheel chair; even going by their Moderate-1 improvement plan they're saying I need 15 hours a week of training. Even Off Season and Taper training tells me 11 -12 hours a week. On the other end of the scale is Extreme-2 which would have me killing myself with 20 hours a week. They're saying my FTP is currently 321 when I know it's much closer to 280 or so. I'm always working with a training deficit because I can't keep with what they're telling me to do.

  7. #7
    Jack of no trades
    Reputation: Wood Devil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,578
    Quote Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    your interval days don't drive up TSS much but take recovery time to capitalize on them - to have a TSS in the range you noted sure sounds like you aren't taking enough recovery with those. How often are you taking a rest week?
    I don't do rest weeks. If I take a week off my legs need two just to get back on form.

  8. #8
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,725
    Quote Originally Posted by Wood Devil View Post
    I don't do rest weeks. If I take a week off my legs need two just to get back on form.
    In what parameters do you mean? Measured strength, speed, feel of pain...etc.?

  9. #9
    Jack of no trades
    Reputation: Wood Devil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,578
    Quote Originally Posted by bvber View Post
    In what parameters do you mean? Measured strength, speed, feel of pain...etc.?
    An inability to get the legs moving. Last rest week I took it was like the legs were full of cement once I got back on the bike. And by "rest week" I mean a week of of nothing above zone 2. It's almost like the my legs need that hard efforts to keep charged.

  10. #10
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Srode's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    3,377
    2 weeks is a long time to get back up to speed for sure, that doesn't happen to me. Can you describe your rest week day by day, hours and zones?
    Gravel Rocks

    Trek Domane
    Niner RLT9 (Gravel Bike)
    Trek Crockett

  11. #11
    Jack of no trades
    Reputation: Wood Devil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,578
    Quote Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    2 weeks is a long time to get back up to speed for sure, that doesn't happen to me. Can you describe your rest week day by day, hours and zones?
    A couple active recovery days (usually about an hour in duration), and a couple endurance days (90 min to 2 hrs).

    But like I said, I tried that once and it was enough. What I've been doing is training hard until I feel the legs stop firing on all cylinders; I know this when I have trouble holding tempo or can't get through a round of 30/30s. Another sign is when my form goes out the window and I'm moving all over the saddle trying to get comfortable. Then I force myself into a few easy day, a day off and some active recovery. Then I'm usually recovered enough to start racing again.

Similar Threads

  1. Another wind thread: When is too much wind, too much?
    By Ventruck in forum General Cycling Discussion
    Replies: 66
    Last Post: 11-26-2009, 11:01 AM
  2. Frame too small? Too much seatpost?
    By ccwaskier in forum Bikes, Frames and Forks
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 10-25-2008, 08:26 AM
  3. Too much muscle too easily
    By OldEndicottHiway in forum Coaching
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 08-23-2007, 09:12 PM
  4. did i drop too much weight too fast
    By footballcat in forum Racing, Training, Nutrition, Triathlons
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 11-20-2005, 06:41 PM
  5. Much, too much too early...
    By TurboTurtle in forum General Cycling Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-01-2004, 01:45 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT ROADBIKEREVIEW

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.