MHP Dark Matter
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Thread: MHP Dark Matter

  1. #1
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    MHP Dark Matter

    Hi, i was wondering what other riders use this post ride, and if you go by the guidelines of not eating or drinking anything else for an hour after it.

    Thanks..

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    had never heard of this so looked it up; bodybuilding marketing people have managed to use just about every possible BS phrase for this one. Personally, I would be scared to eat anything that is going to enter my stomach at the speed of "high velocity nano-physics." Sounds like a euphemism for the runs...

    "High Velocity Nano-Physics opens the Anabolic Window fast to create a synergistic delivery of ProSynthagen, WaxiMax-C3G and Hydro-SIZE to simultaneously peak at the “Anabolic Axis” to flood your muscles with key muscle building nutrients and keep the Anabolic Window open longer."

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    No runs for me yet

    My coach told me it has the right ratios of everything, and everything you need. Just curious to see if many other people are using it.

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    Woops, I thought this was a physics forum question. nm

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    the controversial ingredient is creatine. Not clear if it really is useful for endurance performance (Matt Fitzgerald has some review of that issue on the web somewhere) and is thought to increase body weight. The carb/protein ratio looks OK, but my guess is the cost is a premium.

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    Coach = salesman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Damitletsride!
    No runs for me yet

    My coach told me it has the right ratios of everything, and everything you need. Just curious to see if many other people are using it.
    It sounds to me like your "coach" is actually in the sales department. Scientific research studies have shown that low fat chocolate milk provides everything that commercial recovery drinks do. There is no magic formula for anything that is legal.

    As others have noted, that marketing copy is the sincerest form of hype but it really is 100% distilled gibberish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons
    It sounds to me like your "coach" is actually in the sales department. Scientific research studies have shown that low fat chocolate milk provides everything that commercial recovery drinks do. There is no magic formula for anything that is legal.

    As others have noted, that marketing copy is the sincerest form of hype but it really is 100% distilled gibberish.
    Well, I'd possibly expect that answer from some one like my parents, but not a fellow cyclist. If you look at the nutritional break down of the two of them, you will see they are both far, far different. I just went onto Training Peaks and did it actually, you are no where near 40 grams of protein per serving with chocolate milk, the closest I got was 21 grams, using 600 ml of milk (I use 600 ml of water in my shake as recommended). Its much higher in fat too. At that rate they would both cost about the same per serving, my "commercial" drink being slightly cheaper and the better option I would say.

    Yes no magic formula to training, but everyone knows theres a 30 minute window right after a hard session where you need to get something in, so if I take this it takes a bit of pressure off before I shower, get changed etc and look for something nice to cook.

    I'm sure there are people that get attracted to the packaging and fancy explanations and buy them when they don't need them, but that's not my case.

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    Quantity and quality

    Quote Originally Posted by Damitletsride!
    you are no where near 40 grams of protein per serving with chocolate milk, the closest I got was 21 grams, using 600 ml of milk (I use 600 ml of water in my shake as recommended). Its much higher in fat too.
    You can get/make lowfat chocolate milk.

    Why do you need 40 gm of protein after a workout? That's 40% of the maximum daily requirement for a 150 lb person. And at the (probably higher than needed) 4:1 carbrotein ratio, that means you're wanting to take in 800 calories after your workout. That is WAY more than needed unless you just finished 6 hours of effort.

    I didn't say that the nutritional breakdown of chocolate milk was the same as commercial recovery drinks, I said that it is just as effective. That's what the research shows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons
    You can get/make lowfat chocolate milk.

    Why do you need 40 gm of protein after a workout? That's 40% of the maximum daily requirement for a 150 lb person. And at the (probably higher than needed) 4:1 carbrotein ratio, that means you're wanting to take in 800 calories after your workout. That is WAY more than needed unless you just finished 6 hours of effort.

    I didn't say that the nutritional breakdown of chocolate milk was the same as commercial recovery drinks, I said that it is just as effective. That's what the research shows.
    The chocolate milk study is pretty limited - you're referring to Karp et al.? A total of 9 subjects and a recovery period of 4 hours between exercise trials, which isn't a very good model of typical inter-exercise intervals in cycling. The carbohydrate composition of chocolate milk (higher sucrose) could account for the differences they report (as they acknowledge). Finally, they were funded by the Diary Council.

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    Milk is yek! Full of hormones, antibiotics, infectious puss.

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    Milk hate

    Quote Originally Posted by durielk
    Milk is yek! Full of hormones, antibiotics, infectious puss.
    Oh my! I've been drinking milk every day for my entire life! What should I do now?

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    You could drink your urine & be fine, but you have to ask yourself why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damitletsride!
    Well, I'd possibly expect that answer from some one like my parents, but not a fellow cyclist. If you look at the nutritional break down of the two of them, you will see they are both far, far different. I just went onto Training Peaks and did it actually, you are no where near 40 grams of protein per serving with chocolate milk, the closest I got was 21 grams, using 600 ml of milk (I use 600 ml of water in my shake as recommended). Its much higher in fat too. At that rate they would both cost about the same per serving, my "commercial" drink being slightly cheaper and the better option I would say.

    Yes no magic formula to training, but everyone knows theres a 30 minute window right after a hard session where you need to get something in, so if I take this it takes a bit of pressure off before I shower, get changed etc and look for something nice to cook.

    I'm sure there are people that get attracted to the packaging and fancy explanations and buy them when they don't need them, but that's not my case.
    $0g of protein is a serving is too much, unless your a 300lb body builder on steroids. Your body can't absurd that much protein in a sitting. That's pretty much a fact!

    I sold supplements for YEARS. Most of that stuff is marketing hype. Don't need/accede more than 20g per serving.
    DIRT BOY

    "Pain is a big fat creature riding on your back. The farther you pedal, the heavier he feels. The harder you push, the tighter he squeezes your chest. The steeper the climb, the deeper he digs his jagged, sharp claws into your muscles." - Scott Martin


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    Quote Originally Posted by durielk
    Milk is yek! Full of hormones, antibiotics, infectious puss.

    So is almost everything else you eat. Including the cows that produce the milk for the protein shakes you drink. How about pesticides in your veggies? Cell phones that cause cancer?
    DIRT BOY

    "Pain is a big fat creature riding on your back. The farther you pedal, the heavier he feels. The harder you push, the tighter he squeezes your chest. The steeper the climb, the deeper he digs his jagged, sharp claws into your muscles." - Scott Martin


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    Recovery drinks are a sham. Just eat & drink something reasonably balanced within 30 minutes after you complete the exercise. Timing has much more do with it than the ingested substance. If you eat something with a good mix of carbs and protein there is marginal added value to the fancy supplements.

    Same goes for energy drinks. Sprinkle some salt and sugar in your water bottle and you have 99% of what they include already.

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    Path forward

    Quote Originally Posted by durielk
    You could drink your urine & be fine, but you have to ask yourself why?
    So, just where are you going with this? Are you putting in for "most oblique bike forum post"?

    We get that you don't like milk. What you have is no evidence that your dislike is meaningful for anyone except those who are lactose intolerant.

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    My point is why drink it. I think over half the forumites agree that nutritionally it is not optimum for a recovery drink. I guess my point is I am discusted (sp) with the food industry & USDA putting their golden stamp on all this food that quite frankly is equivalent to eating crap. Hamburger, milk, cheese, etc. are all made by mixing together in huge vats. Any contamination in any one animal (sickness, hormones, antibiotics, etc.) is mixed in with 1000's of portions that is consumed by you. Consider this thread HIGHJACKED.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duane Gran
    Recovery drinks are a sham. Just eat & drink something reasonably balanced within 30 minutes after you complete the exercise. Timing has much more do with it than the ingested substance. If you eat something with a good mix of carbs and protein there is marginal added value to the fancy supplements.

    Same goes for energy drinks. Sprinkle some salt and sugar in your water bottle and you have 99% of what they include already.

    You really must be from a different planet mate.

    I know some people don't agree with the idea of recovery drinks or are against them, but saying you can make an energy drink by sprinkling salt and sugar into bottle.. . I'll leave that to the hippies thanks. I'd rather not bonk two hours into a race. Maybe for novice riders this mix would suit, I would agree to that.

    A recovery drink can give you a good mix of BCAA's, glutamine, and carbs in the form of glucose polymers, sucrose and fructose, which will be more a lot more effective than milk. The fats in things like chocolate milk are much slower to break down in the gut.

    Like them or not, simply saying they are a sham or don't work is just a wild bizarre statement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damitletsride!
    Like them or not, simply saying they are a sham or don't work is just a wild bizarre statement.
    I don't think that was the intent of the statement, rather that for recovery purposes, there's little or no added benefit gained from paying for a "formula" vs just eating real food.

    On the bike / during workout is a different question... I've experimented with all sorts of powders and so forth, but I keep coming back to plain old bulk maltodextrin + some flavoring... basically "sugar water".
    * not actually a Rock Star

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creakyknees
    I don't think that was the intent of the statement, rather that for recovery purposes, there's little or no added benefit gained from paying for a "formula" vs just eating real food.

    On the bike / during workout is a different question... I've experimented with all sorts of powders and so forth, but I keep coming back to plain old bulk maltodextrin + some flavoring... basically "sugar water".
    Well maybe if you are able to get a good meal down within 30 minutes of your workout, but this usually isn't practical for me. So i find a recovery shake takes a lot of pressure off, so i can relax for a few minutes before thinking about cooking something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevesbike
    The chocolate milk study is pretty limited - you're referring to Karp et al.? A total of 9 subjects and a recovery period of 4 hours between exercise trials, which isn't a very good model of typical inter-exercise intervals in cycling. The carbohydrate composition of chocolate milk (higher sucrose) could account for the differences they report (as they acknowledge). Finally, they were funded by the Diary Council.
    I'm glad to see someone is making sense. Milk breaks down slower in the system than most recovery drinks, so i'd like to see the "Scientific research" that said it was just as effective.

    Maybe a crappy recovery shake can be just as good as a good quality chocolate milk shake, but i don't use crappy recovery shakes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damitletsride!
    Well maybe if you are able to get a good meal down within 30 minutes of your workout, but this usually isn't practical for me. So i find a recovery shake takes a lot of pressure off, so i can relax for a few minutes before thinking about cooking something.
    Sure, why not? Just have a pre-cooked meal ready? How about Natural Peanut Butter sandwich on a nice Multi-Grain bread with low sugar natural jelly? Quick, easy and nutritional.

    perdue shortcuts with minute rice brown rice individual cups? takes about 5 min for a meal.

    See what I mean?

    I understand about the ease of recovery drinks and can relate. There are good ones and bad ones in a sense that they are over priced. That;s the problem with the supplement industry.

    best recovery drink IMO is Vanilla Met-Rx powered and OJ or Pineapple juice. Bam!! Everything you mentioned and cheap to make.

    or Vanilla Designer Whey, same juice and a scoop of high quality glutamine powder.

    No need for fancy brands/drinks!!!

    yes, plenty of supplements are just a SHAM!!!!!! The business I worked for proved this for years with lab analysis of bars and drinks. World Wide Protein bars and some EAS products come to mind!
    DIRT BOY

    "Pain is a big fat creature riding on your back. The farther you pedal, the heavier he feels. The harder you push, the tighter he squeezes your chest. The steeper the climb, the deeper he digs his jagged, sharp claws into your muscles." - Scott Martin


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    Wow

    Quote Originally Posted by durielk
    My point is why drink it. I think over half the forumites agree that nutritionally it is not optimum for a recovery drink. I guess my point is I am discusted (sp) with the food industry & USDA putting their golden stamp on all this food that quite frankly is equivalent to eating crap. Hamburger, milk, cheese, etc. are all made by mixing together in huge vats. Any contamination in any one animal (sickness, hormones, antibiotics, etc.) is mixed in with 1000's of portions that is consumed by you. Consider this thread HIGHJACKED.
    I guess now it's time to get my tinfoil hat

    Hamburger is made by mixing in huge vats? Really? Likewise milk is made by mixing in huge vats? What happened to the cows? And you don't like that cheese is a product of bacterial digestion, just like wine, beer, and tofu?

    OK man, knock yourself out.

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    well, im new to cycling but have been a competing bodybuilder (small shows) for many years and know a thing or two about nutrition for that sport, not quite sure how it translates for this sport though.

    i will say that you most certainly do not have to be a 300 pound bodybuilder on steroids to adequately use more than 20 grams of protein at a time. thats laughable really. depends somewhat on your body weight though.

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    oh, and store milk sucks....raw milk is an amazing source of nutrition though.

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