Complaints re: Tire Clearance on Breakaway Road
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  1. #1
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    Complaints re: Tire Clearance on Breakaway Road

    I bought a steel Breakaway specifically for a month-long stay in Europe. It was built with SRAM Force 22, Bontrager Race TLR wheels, and Conti 4000IIs 25mm tires. I have had a pretty terrible problem with wheel rub that has, to this point, made me totally regret this purchase. At first I thought the brakes just weren't centered, but now I understand that the bike just doesn't have clearance for these tires--the tire is apparently rubbing the underside of the brake calipers (and maybe the front fork?). My question is whether this bike wasn't designed to work with 25mm Conti tires (which would be contrary to info online and would be very disappointing). The shops here are telling me the only solution is to go a 23mm tire. Anyone have any thoughts? Is that the only solution? (I don't understand the point of a Ritchey rep stating the the frame has clearance but only without calipers installed--isn't the braze the real issue?)

    p.s. I wrote to Ritchey directly with these concerns but have thus far heard nothing.

  2. #2
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    That's a wide rim and you may find the tire up at 27 mm wide or so if you measure.

    Ritchey rep here may have a comment, but for now I think your LBS is right. A 23 mm tire should measure 25mm on those rims.
    We just don’t realize the most significant moments of our lives when they’re happening
    Back then I thought “well there'll be other days”
    I didn’t realize that was the only day
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    There's sometimes a buggy.
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    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
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  3. #3
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    Brake brands have different construction details that affect how much of the brake arms sit below the pivot bolt. That's why Ritchey can only spec what tire will fit through the fork; they can only control the fork dimensions. So you can try a Campy or Shimano brake but unfortunately they may not work well with the SRAM levers. Your only other solution is to have a steel fork built for the frame. Guaranteed it will have the clearance you seek while being a perfect match for your Breakaway.

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the replies--I appreciate it. Re: the Bontrager Rims, part of what concerns me is that I don't think these are wide rims (only 17mm?). I wanted to get a nicer set of wide rims for the bike, and I'm questioning whether that would be possible. There is *so little* clearance. Re: the fork, I was wondering if that could be a fix--it's an expense I'd rather not have, but beyond that I'm surprised by how little clearance there is in the back by the bridge. So I'm unfortunately not convinced there's a solution (and again am not really happy since others have said the frame can work with 28mm Contis--I sure didn't think I would have a problem with 25s).

  5. #5
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    They are a "wide" rim at 23 mm outside, 17.5 mm inside. A "traditional" rim will measure about 19 and 13.
    We just don’t realize the most significant moments of our lives when they’re happening
    Back then I thought “well there'll be other days”
    I didn’t realize that was the only day
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yrupye7B0

    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?
    One.
    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by roaduser View Post
    I don't think these are wide rims (only 17mm?). I wanted to get a nicer set of wide rims for the bike, and I'm questioning whether that would be possible.
    The Race TLRs spec to 17.5mm inner, 23mm outer which is the same as the HED Belgium C2 and H plus Son Archetype and those are IMO wide. Not as wide as the HED Belgium + but still wide. I just went through selecting new rims and actually steered away from these after discussing clearance with the wheel builder. Not that this will help you but I ended up going with a DT R440 at 16mm inner/ 21mm outer and saw about a 1.5mm total growth (measured across the tire) compared to my old rims that were 13.9mm/19mm.

    Sad to say that a 23mm tire may be the cheapest way out for you. Hopefully you have some around to try. Or maybe you have some old hoops that you can use with 25s. Not what you want but, as they say, it is what it is.

    This image was circulating in other posts recently. It may give you some insight. Not everyone has reported the same as what's here. Some noted both width and height growth, others just width. It is counter intuitive at fist to think that a wider rim will cause a tire's height to grow... but it can.
    86683-largest_1_SlowtwitchTire-Comparison_small.jpg
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  7. #7
    tka
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    I'm having the same problem on my Road Logic with a Campag front brake and a 25mm Conti 4000IIs on a HED Belgium+ rim. I haven't had clearance issues with 25mm Gatorskins, Hardshells, or Michelin Pro4. The bottom line is that the 25mm Conti 4000IIs measure much closer to a 28mm than a 25mm. I'm picking up a 23mm Conti 4000IIs that hopefully will solve the problem.

  8. #8
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    Thanks for previous two posts--both very helpful. I guess I misunderstood the Bonty spec--I see now that it is a wider rim (though I don't really feel better about the way this issue was represented). MisterMike, thanks for the chart. Now I guess I'm trying to understand if it makes sense to get 23mm rims for this bike (something like HED Ardennes FR or November Nimbus TI); if those rims would only work with 23mm tires; or if the better option is to get a narrower rim (like the 21mm rims you mention) and run a wider tire.

    I'm also wondering if the clearance issues are front and back (i.e. if the can be solved by getting a different fork). For me, they seem to be both.

  9. #9
    tka
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    On my Road Logic 2.0 the clearance issue is only with the front brake. The 25mm Conti 4000IIs actually has plenty of clearance between the fork and the tire. There is NO issue whatsoever on the rear. It is just the front brake that is the problem.
    Attachment 314462Attachment 314463

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by roaduser View Post
    Thanks for previous two posts--both very helpful. I guess I misunderstood the Bonty spec--I see now that it is a wider rim (though I don't really feel better about the way this issue was represented). MisterMike, thanks for the chart. Now I guess I'm trying to understand if it makes sense to get 23mm rims for this bike (something like HED Ardennes FR or November Nimbus TI); if those rims would only work with 23mm tires; or if the better option is to get a narrower rim (like the 21mm rims you mention) and run a wider tire.

    I'm also wondering if the clearance issues are front and back (i.e. if the can be solved by getting a different fork). For me, they seem to be both.
    There would appear to be a substantial difference in height if you simply fit a 23 mm tire to the wheels you have, and you'll end up with a setup that's essentially like a 25 mm tire on a narrow rim, only better.

    Often, the simplest solution is the best.
    We just don’t realize the most significant moments of our lives when they’re happening
    Back then I thought “well there'll be other days”
    I didn’t realize that was the only day
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yrupye7B0

    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?
    One.
    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM

  11. #11
    Ritchey Design Rep
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    Quote Originally Posted by roaduser View Post
    I bought a steel Breakaway specifically for a month-long stay in Europe. It was built with SRAM Force 22, Bontrager Race TLR wheels, and Conti 4000IIs 25mm tires. I have had a pretty terrible problem with wheel rub that has, to this point, made me totally regret this purchase. At first I thought the brakes just weren't centered, but now I understand that the bike just doesn't have clearance for these tires--the tire is apparently rubbing the underside of the brake calipers (and maybe the front fork?). My question is whether this bike wasn't designed to work with 25mm Conti tires (which would be contrary to info online and would be very disappointing). The shops here are telling me the only solution is to go a 23mm tire. Anyone have any thoughts? Is that the only solution? (I don't understand the point of a Ritchey rep stating the the frame has clearance but only without calipers installed--isn't the braze the real issue?)

    p.s. I wrote to Ritchey directly with these concerns but have thus far heard nothing.
    Sorry I am jumping in here a little late.
    So the frame is designed to fit a "25c tire", however, not all 25c tires are created equal. It's been my experience (not just here at Ritchey, but at the shops I worked at before) that Continentals GP4000s typically measure about a size larger then they say they are (ie: 23 is more like a 25 and their 25 is more like a 28). Our 25c tire fits fine in the frame and fork, with no brake rub. I've also seen a few others fit in fine as well. While we do say a 25c tire will fit, that largely depends on the tire. Cheers!
    Nyk
    Ritchey Design Representative

  12. #12
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    What 25c tires specifically run true to size? Any that run a little smaller than 25mm? I have found that the Vredestein Senso All Weather 25c tires are the smallest that I have measured on a 17c internal diameter rim so far.


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  13. #13
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    https://silca.cc/blogs/journal/11839...-we-got-to-now

    This article from Silca seems pretty timely as well.
    Nyk
    Ritchey Design Representative

  14. #14
    Cathedral City, CA
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    No problem with my carbon BreakAway: Campagnolo Zonda wheels, Chorus brakes, GP4000sII 25mm tires...
    2016 Ritchey BreakAway (carbon)
    Full Campagnolo drivetrain - Chorus 11sp (50, 34 & 12-29)
    Zonda wheels
    Lezyne Super GPS w/Cateye speed/cadence & HR sensors
    Ritchey fork, stem, headset, bars and seatpost
    Fizik Arione VSX saddle
    Cinelli bar tape

    BeBop Pedals

  15. #15
    tka
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    I finally had a chance to mount the 23mm Conti 4000SII that's been sitting in the basement for the last 3 weeks.. On the HED Belgium+ rim it measures 26mm wide, but more importantly it gives substantially more clearance to the brake. It measures almost 3mm less radius than the 25mm that was on before.

    Attachment 315142

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