• 12-01-2004
    meat tooth paste
    Runners/Joggers in Santa Monica on San Vicente...
    I am new to riding on San Vicente towards the Ocean in Santa Monica and Brentwood.

    I noticed that when I ride back inland (east) on San Vicente, I encounter large groups of runners/joggers in the bike lane against traffic. It seems like regular practice for them to not yield to cyclist who are riding properly in the bike lane with the flow of traffic.

    What is the etiquette on San Vicente?

    I often find myself forced out of the bike lanes onto traffic. The runners/joggers don't even offer to form a single file when they see a bike coming. At first, I thought they would yield and make room for cyclist since they are running on wrong side of the road against traffic, but I soon learned that they don't. I am not a runner, but I am guessing that it's a runner thing to go against traffic if seems based on my observations. Must be a saftey thing to not have cars against you back. Practical really, but seems like they impose on cyclist and force cyclist into unsafe situautions.

    I stopped riding on San Vicente on weekends now to avoid the hassle, but was just wondering if they have grown to just get the right of way.
  • 12-01-2004
    mohair_chair
    I'm sure I'll get flamed, but my policy is not to give up the right of way to people going the wrong way. I'll look away, stare them down, whatever, but I'm not jumping out into traffic I can't see to avoid some bozo. They can see the traffic, so they can avoid it better than I can. Now I'm not going to run into anyone, but if they aren't moving out of my way, I'll come to a complete stop and dare them to hit me. That's what Miss Manners says to do when walking on the sidewalk, so I figure it applies here as well.
  • 12-02-2004
    HAL9000
    Right on!
    While we road bikers are guilty of poor manners/actions like two abreast & running stops, bad bad no excuse! Runners are certainly not comprised of all God's angels from my experience.

    I say force 'em to the left or back to the sidewalk(where they belong BTW). Back on to the sidewalk where there is a sidewalk next to the street bikelane.

    And as for the asphalt being softer to run on, BS! The difference in "give" between concrete & asphalt is insignificant to typical human weight(even in big body USofA).

    Bike lanes especially, get out of the damn bike lane if you re on foot. Cyclists hve enough contend with.
  • 12-03-2004
    Mapei
    There IS no etiquette on San Vicente. Just think of it as a very long fashion show runway, with everybody elbowing it out for space..
  • 12-03-2004
    meat tooth paste
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mapei Roida
    There IS no etiquette on San Vicente. Just think of it as a very long fashion show runway, with everybody elbowing it out for space..

    Funny. True, it does seem like a "be seen excercising" type street. Everyone's got their highend gear on, joggers and cyclists.

    Yeah I have caught on to the lack of etiquette on San Vicente. There more runners than cyclist, so they win by shear numbers and they run in packs of up to 20. Stampede at that point.

    I avoid it altogether now. I just cut across on Broadway to get to Century City now where I live. No joggers and a nice wide bike lane. Plus, Helens and Supergo are on the way for any impulsive bike "needs".
  • 12-03-2004
    fivekbob
    My Bad
    I am one of the culprits on the runners side unfortunately. There are a wide array of problems on San Vicente. I run and cycle there. The runners who run solo, east on San Vicente try to stay to the right of the bike lane. If you tried to run me over, I wouldn't even see you until you hit me. The folks running the opposite direction (LA Leggers) tend to force those running with traffic further in the bike lane. It is inevitable that there will be a problem as there is on various parts of the strand. Now the other problem is that motor vehicles park on the bike path a particular part of San Vicente where the bike bath has no 10 foot buffer from it to the curb. Car parked, runners running, cyclists cycling...big problem.
    I have an idea. Contact the LA Leggers or whatever group does it's group runs and ask for a courteous settlement. I'm sure that this might be better than trying to engage the Santa Monica Police Dept.
    Sorry all this has come up. Runners and cyclists both need places to workout and frankly an asphalt street is much better for runners than concrete sidewalks.
    Later 5KBob (Cycle and Run Hard)
  • 12-03-2004
    meat tooth paste
    5KBob,

    That was a good intelligent post. Thanks for sharing that point of view.

    Personally, I have nothing against the solo runners, it's the herds that I cause the problems.

    When I do ride towards that neighborhood, I now ride in the residential streets in the N. or Montana neighborhood witha the numbered streets. It gets me to the beach just fine and is prettier with all them fancy houses.

    I do think something will go down on San Vicente. It's only a matter of time before a collision occurs between runners and cyclists and some ugliness may come about.

    BTW, speaking of Santa Monica, avoid riding down Montana where all those shops are. I used to work there and it's a high accident prone area with all the parked cars, shops, crosswalks and speeding cars. The actress that played Beavers's mom on the old show hit a pedestrian out there about a couple years ago. It was bad.
  • 12-03-2004
    DrRoebuck
    But ...
    Don't the big groups mostly run early in the morning? If so, traffic on San Vicente at that time is pretty light, if there's any at all.

    That being said ... they should just get the hell out of the way. Cyclists in this city have so few dedicated zones, whereas the joggers can basically go wherever the hell they want. (Of course, I've had near head-ons with groups of cyclists on the strand as well.)
  • 12-03-2004
    meat tooth paste
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DrRoebuck
    Don't the big groups mostly run early in the morning? If so, traffic on San Vicente at that time is pretty light, if there's any at all....

    There are still large packs up til around noon or even one. Now that it's cooler with winter temps, they seem to be running later in the morning into afternoons.

    In spacious Orange Country in the newer track "master planned" communities, they have jogging lanes on the inside and a bike lane on the outside. I think something like that would help on San Vicente.

    Speaking of the strand. I think they need to repaint the faded "Bike Only" markings on the path. It's so faded now.
  • 12-04-2004
    fivekbob
    Hi Meat
    Thanks for the polite response. To the Dr....The newby runners in the pack don't have a clue. They run/walk 4 abreast, chat and will force me into the lane of car traffic even though they are facing traffic. Don't hit them....You will be outnumbered and they will sue you....even worse, your bike might get damaged.
    Anyway Meat....I saw that link below your message. Very cool. I would be glad to meet you up your way, if not for a bike ride (Me not a fast rider) but for a cup of coffee....Or meet half way to Torrance at the Shack in Playa Del Rey. I might also be riding with the new guy who is moving from Toronto to Torrance Christmas time. Not sure I can keep up with him, but at least show him around PV and the Coast.
    Meanwhile 12 of running this morning followed by the UCLA/USC game....
    Later pal 5K Ride and Run Hard
  • 12-04-2004
    The Walrus
    The Shack!
    What's your take on this place? I haven't stopped there yet, since my allegiance is to the Bucket in Eagle Rock, as far as grotesque burgers go, but I've heard about this place. Might make a nice pit stop after riding down to PV and back.
  • 12-04-2004
    DrRoebuck
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by The Walrus
    What's your take on this place? I haven't stopped there yet, since my allegiance is to the Bucket in Eagle Rock, as far as grotesque burgers go, but I've heard about this place. Might make a nice pit stop after riding down to PV and back.


    I think it's ok, but I haven't been there in a few years. I wouldn't want to ride very far after eating there, that's for sure.

    There's another place called Father's Office on Montana (by Lincoln) that has some really, really good burgers. A little more on the gourmet side but damn good.
  • 12-05-2004
    fivekbob
    The Shack
    I don't even know that I have ever been to Eagle Rock. You know what they say about folks that live near the beach....We never go east of Sepulveda. I just chose the Shack because, I could do the major portion of my ride. have a bite at the Shack and head home to the Redondo Beach/Torrance Area. They have the famous Shack Burger, a hamburger patty with a Louisiana Hot Link on top of it.....They have a bar as well. One could also meet up for breakfast at Joni's Coffee Roaster or Noah's Bagels on Washington Blvd, half mile from the Venice Pier.
    Later 5K Ride Hard
  • 12-08-2004
    meat tooth paste
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by fivekbob
    Don't hit them....You will be outnumbered and they will sue you....even worse, your bike might get damaged.

    Very true. Then you, the cyclist, will look like the a#@hole and were in the wrong for being to aggro.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by fivekbob
    I would be glad to meet you up your way, if not for a bike ride (Me not a fast rider) but for a cup of coffee....Or meet half way to Torrance at the Shack in Playa Del Rey

    Yeah let's meet up. PM me and we'll pick a spot. I am not that fast either, I ride a 1x9 bike with a 42t in the front and a mountain cassette in the rear. My usual ride is from Malibu down to Manhattan beach via the strand path. I always take a break at Washington where the path ends and you take Washington to link up the path again in MDR