Hard to shift Rival Front derailleur
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  1. #1
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    Hard to shift Rival Front derailleur

    Hi,

    I just installed a Rival group. The front derailleur is requires a lot of effort/force to get into the big ring. When I shift to the small ring, it's quite an explosive experience. Two rather loud click/bangs. It seems the spring in the derailleur is very stiff.

    Any thoughts on this? Is it a known issue?

    Thanks,
    Steve

  2. #2
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    Check your cable tension. The two clicks you feel is the trim in the big ring.

    If in doubt...bring it to a bike shop.

  3. #3
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    +1. I'm sure you find you have no movement with the trim feature either. You have too much tension on the cable.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by XR4Ti
    +1. I'm sure you find you have no movement with the trim feature either. You have too much tension on the cable.
    Do you mind elaborating more on the tension, do you mean to use the inline barrel adjuster to create slack in the cable?

    Thanks,
    Steve

  5. #5
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    If it is as stiff as you say, go for more -- start by increasing the slack at the derailleur itself.

  6. #6
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    Thanks, that seemed to work. The downshifts are much less violent, but still fairly fast. The upshift seems a bit easier as well, though not quite as easy as I think it should be.

    Are there any other setup tips I should know about? The rear shifts great, nice and crisp and spot on.

    Thanks,
    Steve

  7. #7
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    If you got the rear set up fine and crisp, then you obviously used a long-enough rear derailleur cable housing, which IMO is the cause of many of the poor shifting rears.

    The only other thing you can try for is small-small & big-big tuning (not that you should be running those anyway), which is a lot of front derailleur tuning (and long enough chainstays).

  8. #8
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    XR4Ti - You helped me this morning with my front as well, thanks.

    Does the rear cable length affect the rear shifting lots? When I try to go into the large rear on the large front, the der. runs into the large ring in the back. It jams and wnt shift into it.

    I know your not supposed to go bib-big, but it should shift into it?? I've never had this problem before with Ultegra or my Mtn. bike XT/XTR.... Is my chain not long enough, I've done every adjustment I can think of and all I have is a scratched rear der. from hitting the large sproket, ahhhh.....

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by kananaskis
    XR4Ti - You helped me this morning with my front as well, thanks.

    Does the rear cable length affect the rear shifting lots? When I try to go into the large rear on the large front, the der. runs into the large ring in the back. It jams and wnt shift into it.

    I know your not supposed to go bib-big, but it should shift into it?? I've never had this problem before with Ultegra or my Mtn. bike XT/XTR.... Is my chain not long enough, I've done every adjustment I can think of and all I have is a scratched rear der. from hitting the large sproket, ahhhh.....
    I would guess the chain is too short. IIRC, SRAM's recommended method for finding chain length is big-big (no rear derailleur) plus 2 links. But you could also try adjusting the b-adjust screw at the back of the derailleur to see if that helps.
    Last edited by XR4Ti; 03-01-2011 at 05:28 AM.

  10. #10
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    Thanks, that's exactly what I did, big-big, plus 2 links. I added a longer cable to the rear and that seems to help a bit. I've also been adjusting the b screw trying to trim it out a bit. Is Sram hard to work with, or am I just unlucky?

  11. #11
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    I did find setting up the front finicky when trying to get no rub in big-big and small-small. Raise/lower/twist/tilt/tension/trim/stops -- all had an effect on an other.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by XR4Ti
    I did find setting up the front finicky when trying to get no rub in big-big and small-small. Raise/lower/twist/tilt/tension/trim/stops -- all had an effect on an other.
    I find the best way to set up SRAM front derailleurs is to put the chain in small ring-largest cog, and then adjust the low trim screw until the cage just barely touches the chain when pedaling then back off about 1/4 turn. I find if I set it this way I'm both ok in the small ring-3rd cog(you shouldnt cross the chain more than this....), and the chain never drops off the small ring when shifting into it.

    Set the low limit there, then for the high limit screw you want about 1-2mm clearance between the cage and chain when in big ring-smallest cog. If the upshift is a bit sluggish increase the clearance about a 1/4 turn.

    Cable tension is also important-you need just a touch of slack in it for the large ring trim to work properly. After the low limit is set, loosen the cable then pull with a moderate abount of force with your fingers then clamp it down. -just enough to pull all the slack out, but not super tight-then clamp down the 5mm. That should leave just enough that you get about 1-2mm of travel on the 1st click, and stop rubbing when in the big ring-3rd largest cog(again you shouldn't cross the chain more than this....)

    Hope it helps!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by slegros
    I find the best way to set up SRAM front derailleurs is to put the chain in small ring-largest cog, and then adjust the low trim screw until the cage just barely touches the chain when pedaling then back off about 1/4 turn. I find if I set it this way I'm both ok in the small ring-3rd cog(you shouldnt cross the chain more than this....), and the chain never drops off the small ring when shifting into it.

    Set the low limit there, then for the high limit screw you want about 1-2mm clearance between the cage and chain when in big ring-smallest cog. If the upshift is a bit sluggish increase the clearance about a 1/4 turn.

    Cable tension is also important-you need just a touch of slack in it for the large ring trim to work properly. After the low limit is set, loosen the cable then pull with a moderate abount of force with your fingers then clamp it down. -just enough to pull all the slack out, but not super tight-then clamp down the 5mm. That should leave just enough that you get about 1-2mm of travel on the 1st click, and stop rubbing when in the big ring-3rd largest cog(again you shouldn't cross the chain more than this....)

    Hope it helps!
    Thanks, this seems to work for me on the stand. I'll give it a try on the road tomorrow. I was having problems with the front derailer this morning. I think this will be the fix.
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  14. #14
    Steve
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    i had the same problem with the force fd...

    then i realized that i routed the cable incorrectly. the cable needs to go OUTSIDE the cable guide (to the left of the bolt when looking at it from the rear of the bike), and then over the top of the cable bolt (in the groove). if you pass the cable between the bolt and the tab, there is not enough of a lever arm to move the derailleur all the way over the large chain ring, and you need excessive cable tension (and/or the high limit screw backed way out). route the cable outside the tab--problem solved.

  15. #15
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    I just got a Foil with SRAM and have exact same problem when moving from the big chainring to the small. I get the trim step and the change ok but the loud (explosive) clicks sound dont appear to be normal. At least not for me as a new SRAM rider coming from smooth quiet Shimano. I have tried all the suggestions here and beginning to come to the conclusion that this is the way SRAM works. Would welcome and Shimano/SRAM comparative comments until I go to the bike shop and try another SRAM.

  16. #16
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    fredeshragh + 1!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandman98 View Post
    then i realized that i routed the cable incorrectly. the cable needs to go OUTSIDE the cable guide (to the left of the bolt when looking at it from the rear of the bike), and then over the top of the cable bolt (in the groove). if you pass the cable between the bolt and the tab, there is not enough of a lever arm to move the derailleur all the way over the large chain ring, and you need excessive cable tension (and/or the high limit screw backed way out). route the cable outside the tab--problem solved.
    Exactly right - just had the same problem as the OP after fitting a chain spotter and putting the cable back how it seemed logical to go with respect to the cable guide. Left shifting was then very stiff to the point of making me think I was going to break the lever. Re-routing as per Sandman98's instructions and it's perfect.

  18. #18
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    I had exactly the same problem also, I was installing upgraded Force brake lever-shifters, front and rear derailleurs as an upgrade from Apex. Everything worked fine except the front shifting: the cable required excessive tension and very high lever forces to shift up to the big chain ring. I had routed the front derailleur cable inside the clamp between the screw and rectangular feature on the pivot arm. After reviewing this thread, I realized I had routed the cable wrong. When re-routed outside of the rectangular feature and over the top of the clamp screw, everything worked as expected, cable tension was reasonable and shifter forces were low, similar to the rear shifter. After a closer look at the geometry of the mechanism, itís pretty obvious what the difference is between the two set-ups, when the cable is routed wrong, the moment arm to the pivot is really small. Note to SRAM: please update the picture instructions to highlight the correct cable routing!>>

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