trek madone 5.2 2008 bottom bracket play - Page 9
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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by joker
    hi zac , the bearing race on the non drive side just falls out no pulling or preasure at all it's loose in the frame , i can move it from side to side with my fingers it's so slack .the new bearing race is black. i think the frame itsself is worn .
    trek ahs what are called v2 bearings which should take care of it.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxracer01
    trek ahs what are called v2 bearings which should take care of it.

    don't be silly , please read my other posts about my own personal feelings about this
    undefeated winner of the lantern rouge

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxracer01
    trek ahs what are called v2 bearings which should take care of it.
    cxracer, this thread has followed the BB90/bearing issue from onset to the V2 bearing as a "solution." This thread has been kicking for a while, and the V2 "solution" is still not working for many.

    Many of us are of the opinion that the solution is not to cram a shim into an already compromised bearing socket. I for one cannot possibly see how a one size fits all solution would work for a problem can essentially have an infinite amount of variations in size and shape. I have been trying to understand Trek's solution with the V2 bearing/shim, but I simply cannot reconcile it with what I understand is the problem, as being a permanent final solution. At best the V2 may be a stop-gap temporary solution for some, but for others, it seems to me, that full frame replacement is the only solution.

    It may help to read the entire thread, I know it is long, but the V2 bearings have been discussed and dissected, tried and and replaced, and with mixed results at best.

  4. #204
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    trek madone 5.2 2008 bottom bracket play-v2-nds-zoom.jpg

    Ok first I called my mechanic and it turns out I only have a V2 on the NDS so that's what I ordered as spares, here is the pic. As it turns out the mod is not a sleeve or cup but rather a band shrunk on to the bearing. You can see it very easily as the shim material has a much rougher surface than the shiny bearing surface. I measured the diameter with some digital calipers. The diameter with the shim is 1.4625, without 1.4570, difference is .0055
    Last edited by 82zman; 05-18-2011 at 01:03 PM.

  5. #205
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    just thought I'd give an update its been over 5 weeks now since my frame was sent back to trek for warranty .
    Last edited by joker; 06-08-2011 at 11:58 PM.
    undefeated winner of the lantern rouge

  6. #206
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    Well after a lot of fighting I did get my new frame.
    After I sent the letter below the following things went wrong.
    They sent the Frame ground after I asked for over night as I had a important mountain ride the following weekend.
    Missed my ride
    The LBS ordered the wrong seat mask, stem that and this caused multiple delays
    Once the parts were in they ran into yet another Trek quality issue that caused another delay. The clear coat came off while removing a sticker.
    This was the straw that broke the camels back and I got tired of waiting for the customer service manger to respond to my email. So I was able to get him by phone while I was sitting in the LBS parking lot about to pick up my bike.

    Went though the whole story and he claims that the issue is that some treks left the factory with the socket too big and that is why they use the V2. I assured him I did not notice the issue until ~9k miles and he stated this was not normal. However looking at this forum it looks pretty normal to me. Any way he waived the $500.
    I picked up the bike and noticed they ordered the wrong derailleur Rival not force, put the wrong inline barrel connectors and never apologized for any of the delays, they just sat there looking at me like we know you are going to take it anyway. They were right, I paid exactly what they quoted originally to swap the parts and got the hell out of there before I snapped.

  7. #207
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    Hello Mr Cusomer Srv Mger,

    I hope this message finds you well. Honestly I started this email last week when I thought my 1# priority was going to be resolved “that is to get back on my bike” and I still had mixed emotions on whether or not Trek handled my issue appropriately. Today after another quality control issue “the clear coat came off when the mechanic removed a sticker” causing yet another delay, my mixed emotions have turned into why on earth does Trek deserves my continued loyalty. In the past 15 years with the exception of one bike my collection has been exclusively Trek.
    That said I also know myself well enough to know when I am frustrated my writing can come across as passive aggressive, so if it does I do sincerely apologize as you are new.

    I am not happy about walking away from Trek and I hope you can help answer some questions that will help me determine whether or not I am off base or if or if Trek has lost sight of the customer service that made them great
    There is a fairly well known issue with 2008-09 Madones where the carbon fiber bottom bracket socket wears and the bearing is no longer able to stay seated snugly. The result is play in your crank. In my case it was causing an audible noise at certain wattage's.

    I researched it online and found out about this issue and Trek’s proposed V2 bearing fix. (The V2 bearing is a bearing with a shim around it to make it oversized by ~ .0055mm) Users were reporting poor results with this fix and to me it appears to be a very rudimentary fix and does nothing to prevent the issue from reoccurring. I informed my LBS of this and after weeks of having my LBS deal with Trek and “per them” waiting ~ a week for each reply from Trek, I still had the issue. In that time they had my bike for 4days and installed one V2 bearing that did not resolve the issue. Please note that they hammered in the V2 bearing in with a large rubber. At the time they claimed that the V2 bearing would not fit in the non-drive side although the bearing would fall right out if you leaned the bike over. They then told me Trek denied my frame claim and they wanted to look at the bike for a 3rd time but they could not explain what they would do to resolve the issue. They did say however if we can’t fix it this time we will be forced to send the bike to Trek.

    At this point I contacted Trek directly, took my bike to a different shop “they too agreed that it did not appear to be the appropriate fix” and was put in touch with Bryan My LBS’s outside Rep. Mr My LBS’s outside Rep was much more responsive than my LBS indicated but was adamant that Treks warranty states that Trek has the option to fix or replace and since they had the V2 fix, we had to go that route and like the LBS said otherwise the frame will need to be shipped to Trek for an engineer to look at it. This is a simple issue, the bearing isn’t supposed to fall right out and I asked why on earth do we need to have a bike shipped 1k miles and waist a highly paid engineers time to essentially measure a hole? This can be done locally with a set of digital calipers. No good answer was provided. This seemed like a nothing more than a hoop to jump though in the hopes that I wouldn’t do it. (Smart I guess because I didn’t)

    I am a man of principle and wanted to fight this to the bitter end because truly do not think the issue is as black and white as Mr My LBS’s outside Rep but at the end of the day I was more of an avid cyclist and just wanted to get back on my bike ASAP. So in an effort to expedite resolution, I decided to bring $500 to the table for what I feel is the appropriate fix, a new frame. This compromise was accepted by Mr My LBS’s outside Rep.
    I brought most of these points up to Mr My LBS’s outside Rep but I would like someone from Customer Service to give me their prospective.
    I have bold-ed the parts that do not appear to coincide with the V2 fix and how this product was advertised.

    _________________________
    http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=5007
    In the spirit of Zero Constraints, the engineers decided that conventional bottom bracket design had no place on the new Madone. That is where the Trek’s new Precision Fit Sockets come in; the bottom bracket bearings sit directly into the “sockets” in the frame which are essentially integrated sealed bearing races built into the frame. The current standard outboard bottom bracket bearings are scrapped and the extra width is absorbed into the frame design itself. There is no need for Loctite or any other retaining method. The carbon technology is so sophisticated that testing indicates that the bearings will wear out with no adverse effects to the Precision Fit Sockets.
    _________________________

    Trek stated that the Madone did not need Loctite or any other retaining method and claimed “testing indicates that the bearings will wear out with no adverse effects to the Precision Fit Sockets.”
    So, considering that this entire issue stems around the fact that the Precision Fit Sockets expanded and confirmed by the fact that Trek is attempting to use a shim to fill the space.

    1) Since the BB was advertised as not requiring a retaining method or Loctite, how is it that the shim not considered a retaining method?
    2) Is it typical for Trek to implement a fix that blatantly contradicts the bikes advertising?
    3) I have been to 2 shops and neither had the V2 bearing in stock however they had plenty of the standard bearing, is anything being done to address this?
    4) How long will Trek make this one off V2 shims available? _________________________
    Per http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/suppo...ited_warranty/ it states that
    This warranty does not cover:
    “Installation of components, parts, or accessories not originally intended for or compatible with the bicycle as sold”
    _________________________
    5) Since the V2 bearing was not originally intended for nor is it compatible with Madone “as sold”, isn’t installing this part essentially voiding the warranty?
    The warrant also states “This warranty is expressly limited to the repair or replacement of a “defective item”, and said repair or replacement is the sole remedy of the warranty”
    6) For this issue, the defective item is the socket in the frames bottom bracket that has expanded. The V2 bearing does not address that that part, so how can Trek say the shim repairs the “defective item”?
    7) Considering that everyone’s BB will wear at different rates/shapes, does the V2 bearing come in different sizes or is this a one size fits all solution?
    If you made it this far, thank you for reading it all!! So at the end of this ordeal I spent the following and as I previously stated I am not sure how I feel about it.

    $500 For a frame that should have been warranted
    $95 to the LBS to swap the parts
    $40 For a brazon front derailleur
    Over 2 weeks without my bike
    Almost a month of head aces and lost sleep attempting to get to a resolution that I could live with
    I bought this bike because liked what I read about it, most importantly it fit me well, I liked the lifetime the warranty, I like supporting my LBS and it was made in the USA.

    Again thank you for your time and any insight you can add to this issue and I apologize for the length of the email but trust me I didn't include a lot of other things that went wrong with this process.

    Thanks,
    Heatwave23

    As a side note, since I brought $500 to the table I asked if I could keep the defective fame and convert it into a rain/spare bike and was told no, it had to be recycled. Why go through the waist and expense of recycling something that can still serve a purpose? Recycling sounds great but it should be noted that the process of recycling something takes energy and generates waste. Voiding the warranty on it and allowing me turn it into rain bike does not.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by heatwave23 View Post
    Hello Mr Cusomer Srv Mger,

    I hope this message finds you well. Honestly I started this email last week when I thought my 1# priority was going to be resolved “that is to get back on my bike” and I still had mixed emotions on whether or not Trek handled my issue appropriately. Today after another quality control issue “the clear coat came off when the mechanic removed a sticker” causing yet another delay, my mixed emotions have turned into why on earth does Trek deserves my continued loyalty. In the past 15 years with the exception of one bike my collection has been exclusively Trek.
    That said I also know myself well enough to know when I am frustrated my writing can come across as passive aggressive, so if it does I do sincerely apologize as you are new.

    I am not happy about walking away from Trek and I hope you can help answer some questions that will help me determine whether or not I am off base or if or if Trek has lost sight of the customer service that made them great
    There is a fairly well known issue with 2008-09 Madones where the carbon fiber bottom bracket socket wears and the bearing is no longer able to stay seated snugly. The result is play in your crank. In my case it was causing an audible noise at certain wattage's.

    I researched it online and found out about this issue and Trek’s proposed V2 bearing fix. (The V2 bearing is a bearing with a shim around it to make it oversized by ~ .0055mm) Users were reporting poor results with this fix and to me it appears to be a very rudimentary fix and does nothing to prevent the issue from reoccurring. I informed my LBS of this and after weeks of having my LBS deal with Trek and “per them” waiting ~ a week for each reply from Trek, I still had the issue. In that time they had my bike for 4days and installed one V2 bearing that did not resolve the issue. Please note that they hammered in the V2 bearing in with a large rubber. At the time they claimed that the V2 bearing would not fit in the non-drive side although the bearing would fall right out if you leaned the bike over. They then told me Trek denied my frame claim and they wanted to look at the bike for a 3rd time but they could not explain what they would do to resolve the issue. They did say however if we can’t fix it this time we will be forced to send the bike to Trek.

    At this point I contacted Trek directly, took my bike to a different shop “they too agreed that it did not appear to be the appropriate fix” and was put in touch with Bryan My LBS’s outside Rep. Mr My LBS’s outside Rep was much more responsive than my LBS indicated but was adamant that Treks warranty states that Trek has the option to fix or replace and since they had the V2 fix, we had to go that route and like the LBS said otherwise the frame will need to be shipped to Trek for an engineer to look at it. This is a simple issue, the bearing isn’t supposed to fall right out and I asked why on earth do we need to have a bike shipped 1k miles and waist a highly paid engineers time to essentially measure a hole? This can be done locally with a set of digital calipers. No good answer was provided. This seemed like a nothing more than a hoop to jump though in the hopes that I wouldn’t do it. (Smart I guess because I didn’t)

    I am a man of principle and wanted to fight this to the bitter end because truly do not think the issue is as black and white as Mr My LBS’s outside Rep but at the end of the day I was more of an avid cyclist and just wanted to get back on my bike ASAP. So in an effort to expedite resolution, I decided to bring $500 to the table for what I feel is the appropriate fix, a new frame. This compromise was accepted by Mr My LBS’s outside Rep.
    I brought most of these points up to Mr My LBS’s outside Rep but I would like someone from Customer Service to give me their prospective.
    I have bold-ed the parts that do not appear to coincide with the V2 fix and how this product was advertised.

    _________________________
    http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=5007
    In the spirit of Zero Constraints, the engineers decided that conventional bottom bracket design had no place on the new Madone. That is where the Trek’s new Precision Fit Sockets come in; the bottom bracket bearings sit directly into the “sockets” in the frame which are essentially integrated sealed bearing races built into the frame. The current standard outboard bottom bracket bearings are scrapped and the extra width is absorbed into the frame design itself. There is no need for Loctite or any other retaining method. The carbon technology is so sophisticated that testing indicates that the bearings will wear out with no adverse effects to the Precision Fit Sockets.
    _________________________

    Trek stated that the Madone did not need Loctite or any other retaining method and claimed “testing indicates that the bearings will wear out with no adverse effects to the Precision Fit Sockets.”
    So, considering that this entire issue stems around the fact that the Precision Fit Sockets expanded and confirmed by the fact that Trek is attempting to use a shim to fill the space.

    1) Since the BB was advertised as not requiring a retaining method or Loctite, how is it that the shim not considered a retaining method?
    2) Is it typical for Trek to implement a fix that blatantly contradicts the bikes advertising?
    3) I have been to 2 shops and neither had the V2 bearing in stock however they had plenty of the standard bearing, is anything being done to address this?
    4) How long will Trek make this one off V2 shims available? _________________________
    Per http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/suppo...ited_warranty/ it states that
    This warranty does not cover:
    “Installation of components, parts, or accessories not originally intended for or compatible with the bicycle as sold”
    _________________________
    5) Since the V2 bearing was not originally intended for nor is it compatible with Madone “as sold”, isn’t installing this part essentially voiding the warranty?
    The warrant also states “This warranty is expressly limited to the repair or replacement of a “defective item”, and said repair or replacement is the sole remedy of the warranty”
    6) For this issue, the defective item is the socket in the frames bottom bracket that has expanded. The V2 bearing does not address that that part, so how can Trek say the shim repairs the “defective item”?
    7) Considering that everyone’s BB will wear at different rates/shapes, does the V2 bearing come in different sizes or is this a one size fits all solution?
    If you made it this far, thank you for reading it all!! So at the end of this ordeal I spent the following and as I previously stated I am not sure how I feel about it.

    $500 For a frame that should have been warranted
    $95 to the LBS to swap the parts
    $40 For a brazon front derailleur
    Over 2 weeks without my bike
    Almost a month of head aces and lost sleep attempting to get to a resolution that I could live with
    I bought this bike because liked what I read about it, most importantly it fit me well, I liked the lifetime the warranty, I like supporting my LBS and it was made in the USA.

    Again thank you for your time and any insight you can add to this issue and I apologize for the length of the email but trust me I didn't include a lot of other things that went wrong with this process.

    Thanks,
    Heatwave23

    As a side note, since I brought $500 to the table I asked if I could keep the defective fame and convert it into a rain/spare bike and was told no, it had to be recycled. Why go through the waist and expense of recycling something that can still serve a purpose? Recycling sounds great but it should be noted that the process of recycling something takes energy and generates waste. Voiding the warranty on it and allowing me turn it into rain bike does not.
    Heatwave23 I feel your pain , only i've been waiting 6 frustraiting weeks , i've told my LBS that a botch up job with a squashed in V2[a bearing with garbage shrunk wraped around the outside]is unacceptable , Trek have only offered this as their solution to date and I can do nothing but wait until I die of old age or walk away from Trek forever and start saving for a new bike ,I'm not a wealthy person and it took a long time to save money to buy this Trek, I thought they would be more hounourable with their warranty , It seems to me Trek want to BS the customers ,offer a CRAP solution in the hope people with Trek frame issues will just disapear...........if this sounds annoyed with Trek's warranty procedure 'then it is

    joker
    undefeated winner of the lantern rouge

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by joker View Post
    Heatwave23 I feel your pain , only i've been waiting 6 frustraiting weeks , i've told my LBS that a botch up job with a squashed in V2[a bearing with garbage shrunk wraped around the outside]is unacceptable , Trek have only offered this as their solution to date and I can do nothing but wait until I die of old age or walk away from Trek forever and start saving for a new bike ,I'm not a wealthy person and it took a long time to save money to buy this Trek, I thought they would be more hounourable with their warranty , It seems to me Trek want to BS the customers ,offer a CRAP solution in the hope people with Trek frame issues will just disapear...........if this sounds annoyed with Trek's warranty procedure 'then it is

    joker
    what year frames are affected by this?

    Are Sram drivetrains more prone to issues than Shimano?

    Thanks

  10. #210
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    My frames were2008. 2009. 2010 dont know about the 6 series . Ive been using dura ace.
    undefeated winner of the lantern rouge

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by joker View Post
    My frames were2008. 2009. 2010 dont know about the 6 series . Ive been using dura ace.
    2010's had problems, too? Wish I would have read this thread before buying one!

  12. #212
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    This problem also exists with 2011 5 series bikes. We have had probably a dozen come through with loose bearings. They have redesigned the bb a little bit from their first batches last year though. I bought mine in August and got a DS V2 bearing about 4 months ago and just ordered the NDS V2 bearing yesterday. We will see if that solves the creaking.....Have not seen this problem on the 6 series though.

  13. #213
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    Hi
    I was adamant the hideous cracking/creaking noise was from my bottom bracket, had bearings replaced etc.
    Fault discovered......rear skewer!! Needs to very veryyy tight.
    I felt the cracking in my left foot and the noise was definately coming from the botton bracket!!
    Very relieved

  14. #214
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    Mulvers,

    Good to hear. I need to check mine as I too am having creaking that I think is coming from the bb after taking my wheels off.

  15. #215
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    I would have bet one of my limbs it was my bottom bracket, worth a try as I'd just about given up!!

  16. #216
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    Mul,

    Exactly what my problem was. Little bit of tightening and the creaking went away. Thanks for posting.

  17. #217
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    Trek BB can't take it

    my first post- I'm a proud owner of a TREK madone '09 5.2 and I had a very similar experience with my BB after two years or around 15,000 miles. TREK finally replaced my frame with a new one. It took some doing but customer service came through. TREK warranty dept doesn't respond to their own shops very well, so I had to deal with their customer service directly. Question is when will they correct the long term problem. I'm a high mileage rider around 8,000 per year and I see the same issue down the road...should I buy Titanium?

  18. #218
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    When designed/build correctly a carbon frame can last a life time. This BB issues was caused by a bad design/manufacturing defect. Up until this issue I was a loyal Trek customer and because of how poorly they addressed this issue I have purchased another non-twain carbon bike... And yes it too has a life time warranty.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by heatwave23 View Post
    When designed/build correctly a carbon frame can last a life time. This BB issues was caused by a bad design/manufacturing defect. Up until this issue I was a loyal Trek customer and because of how poorly they addressed this issue I have purchased another non-twain carbon bike... And yes it too has a life time warranty.
    Non-twain a manufacturer? I haven't seen or heard of them...

  20. #220
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    amazing I know but on top of that some companies outside of Twain weave their on carbon fiber used to build their bikes.

  21. #221
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    What the hell is Twain?

  22. #222
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    ahh... that would be a failed attempt at spelling Taiwan...

  23. #223
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    Anybody know if these are reliable?

    TREK MADONE BOTTOM BRACKET BEARINGS

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frogger View Post
    Anybody know if these are reliable?

    TREK MADONE BOTTOM BRACKET BEARINGS
    As far as I know Enduro is still the bearing OEM for Trek and specifically the Madone. I keep several sets of Enduro steel bearings (both BB and HS) in my box.

    As for the ceramics: IMHO a complete waste of $$; plus due to their looser seals, they tend to fail much quicker than a well sealed steel set, especially acute in wetter climates, like here in New England. Couple this with the fact that the Madone BB bearings are very exposed. You have to ask yourself whether they last X times longer than a steel set as would be hoped for since they cost X times more. I have heard some people claim they save a fraction of a watt, but I have yet to see any lab produced results to back up the claims. Of course with all expensive bike trinkets YMMV.
    Last edited by zac; 12-09-2011 at 07:05 PM.

  25. #225
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    Not an aftermarket fix

    Quote Originally Posted by zac View Post
    As far as I know Enduro is still the bearing OEM for Trek and specifically the Madone. I keep several sets of Enduro steel bearings (both BB and HS) in my box.

    As for the ceramics: IMHO a complete waste of $$; plus due to their looser seals, they tend to fail much quicker than a well sealed steel set, especially acute in wetter climates, like here in New England. Couple this with the fact that the Madone BB bearings are very exposed. You have to ask yourself whether they last X times longer than a steel set as would be hoped for since they cost X times more. I have heard some people claim they save a fraction of a watt, but I have yet to see any lab produced results to back up the claims. Of course with all expensive bike trinkets YMMV.

    I guess this is not the after market solution for loose Madone BB bearing

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