climbing wheel vs deep wheel?
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  1. #1
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    climbing wheel vs deep wheel?

    Does upgrading to $400-600 wheels makes sense? I want to have an amazing time riding, I have limited free time so paying upfront on a sensible upgrade seems alright for wheels that I'll have for a while.

    I've looked at several deep wheel sets on ebay that cost $250- 500+, Would a deep rim really be worthwhile for a hobbyist like me? I'm not fast and ride for a hobby a few hours on the weekend will I feel a difference riding 15-20 mph on flats?

    Rides are usually 15 - 30 miles (1-3 hrs) due to lack of time, work, family, fitness etc. My average pace is 15 - 25 mph.

    Current bike is a motobecane le champion with mavic aksiums, it weighs about 18.5 lbs with pedals.

    I'm building up a 2015 caad 10 frame for my partner. Thoughts are buy another pair of extreme budget wheels for the second bike or upgrade my wheels and put the aksiums on the caad.

    mavic cosmic elites off ebay are $115

    upgrade to carbon wheels runs $300-600 for Chinese wheels

    yoeleo climbing wheel is $466 advantages and disadvantages of this type of wheel for the type of riding I do ?

    claimed Wheelset Weight:1089+/-15g seems radically low weight and price
    Tubular Rims Depth: 20mm, Width: 20.5mm, Novatec Hubs A291SB-SL / F482SB-SL O.L.D: Front 100mm,Rear 130mm Cassette Body: Spokes: CN424 Front 20H, Rear 24H, Basalt Braking,

    Pro lite also has a couple of aluminum clincher wheel sets around $300-350

  2. #2
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    Chinese carbon wheels...

    None of those other wheels are really an upgrade.
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  3. #3
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    Mavic wheels off ebay would not be a good investment. They are not very servicable, nice enough if they have no problems, but once they do, better just to pitch them.
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  4. #4
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    beware the difference of tubular rims versus clinchers.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by khouse123 View Post
    I've looked at several deep wheel sets on ebay that cost $250- 500+, Would a deep rim really be worthwhile for a hobbyist like me?
    "Worthwhile" is totally subjective based on you personally. And it's usually in direct correlation to your disposable income.

    I'm not fast and ride for a hobby a few hours on the weekend will I feel a difference riding 15-20 mph on flats?
    You never feel a difference. You will be slightly faster. But you'll never 'feel' it.

    Rides are usually 15 - 30 miles (1-3 hrs) due to lack of time, work, family, fitness etc. My average pace is 15 - 25 mph.
    When referencing average pace, it's given as your average speed over an entire ride. 15 - 25 mph would not be your average pace.
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  6. #6
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    You may want to read through this thread before you waste your money on cheap Chinese carbon wheels:

    https://forums.roadbikereview.com/wh...ml#post5042912

    Often, these knock-off brands have voids in the carbon. If any carbon wheels cost less than $1,000, there is a very good reason. There is a saying which goes "Buy cheap, buy twice".

    I also wouldn't waste my money on anything Mavic. There are better choices.

    That being said, there are some very good quality alloy wheels in the $400-600 range. But the question is will you feel any difference? Probably not.

    Before you decide to spent money on a new wheelset, you should read through the Wheels & Tires FAQ sticky on this subforum and answer these questions. Some may be outdated, but most still apply:

    https://forums.roadbikereview.com/wh...ps-328429.html

    What wheels should I buy?

    On this forum, this question gets asked often -

    Q - I want new wheels for my bike. What should I buy?

    A - Of course, for a good answer, we need as much information as possible. Some of the info we need is -


    • Why do you want new wheels? What's wrong with your old ones?
    • What are you old ones? (rim name, hub name, spokes, their numbers)
    • How much do you want to spend?
    • How heavy are you?
    • Do you ride "light" or "heavy"? Are you powerful or smooth?
    • Have you had problems with your current wheels and if so, what?
    • What condition are the roads in that you ride?
    • What tires, widths and pressures are you using?
    • What do you expect from your new wheels that your old ones can't deliver? (be reasonable and realistic here!)
    • What are you going to use the wheels for - recreational riding, touring (loaded), training, racing, general purpose?
    • Do you want custom hand-built (designed for you) or factory pre-built?
    • Do you want wheels that are easily repairable with readily available, reasonably priced spokes and rims or are you ok with maybe having to ship your wheels back to the factory and wheels that contain expensive, proprietary spokes and possibly un-obtainium replacement rims?
    • Do you need 11spd compatible wheels (can be used with 8 ~10spd cassettes too by using a spacer) or are 10spd wheels ok? (can only be used with 8 ~ 10spd cassettes). Edit - This info is for Shimano & SRAM related cassettes; not Campagnolo.
    • Do you want the wheels to be oriented towards "aero" or "light"?
    • Do you want to use regular clincher, tubeless, or tubular tires?
    • Aluminum or carbon rims?
    • Rim brakes or disk brakes?
    • Rear hub width? (120, 126, 130, 135MM)
    • Do you want adjustable loose ball bearing hubs (almost exclusively Shimano) or cartridge bearing hubs (almost everything else)?

    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

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  7. #7
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    I'm certainly am not an expert on wheels but I have some common bike stuff sense. I have terrible power to weight and it's getting worse with age and disease. So, when I bought my carbon wheels I bought made in the USA Bontrager/Trek wheels with the lowest minimum depth to if ever so little help in climbs and they carry a two year guarantee that if the wheels are damaged or fail for any reasons including damaged in crashes or other accidents they will replace or repair them free of charge.

  8. #8
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    You can get a good quality, well built, durable, and reasonably light carbon wheels in the 35mm to 45mm depth that will make a great all around set. Modern versions of these will have a versatile 21mm internal rim width and don't cost that much more than a comparable (but shallower) alloy set.

    Some of the brands I'm familiar with are Reynolds, Industry Nine, Hunt, and Boyd. I'm sure there are others as well.

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  9. #9
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    I've seen more Reynolds wheels w/ heat damage on the brake surface than all other carbon wheels combined.
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  10. #10
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    The Blackset Race 24 alloy wheel set by Bicycle Wheel Warehouse weighs in at 1455g if you get a reasonable 24F/28R spoke count. Internal rim width is 17mm which is as wide as you need for a road bike. If you go with a lower spoke count which I don't recommend, that can get you down to 1415g:

    Blackset Race 24 700c Wheel Set

    If it's light weight you are looking for, this is it. Why bother spending $$$ for carbon? Anybody who sells you a wheel set less than 1400g is either lying about their weight or the wheels won't last you very long.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    I've seen more Reynolds wheels w/ heat damage on the brake surface than all other carbon wheels combined.
    I've never had a problem. However, mine are all disc brake wheels, so....

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    I've seen more Reynolds wheels w/ heat damage on the brake surface than all other carbon wheels combined.
    same here, seen more Reynolds damage than even the Chinese ones (with Basalt surface). I'd never buy Reynolds

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    The Blackset Race 24 alloy wheel set by Bicycle Wheel Warehouse weighs in at 1455g if you get a reasonable 24F/28R spoke count. Internal rim width is 17mm which is as wide as you need for a road bike. If you go with a lower spoke count which I don't recommend, that can get you down to 1415g:

    Blackset Race 24 700c Wheel Set

    If it's light weight you are looking for, this is it. Why bother spending $$$ for carbon? Anybody who sells you a wheel set less than 1400g is either lying about their weight or the wheels won't last you very long.
    17mm internal ain't wide today anymore for alloy wheels. Hed Belgium Plus is 20.5mm internal. Zipp 30 Course is 21mm internal.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    17mm internal ain't wide today anymore for alloy wheels. Hed Belgium Plus is 20.5mm internal. Zipp 30 Course is 21mm internal.
    And so what? Is it really necessary to follow the sheeple? 17-18mm is wide enough for any road tire. Sure you can go to 21mm, but why?
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  15. #15
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    I'd scratch tubulars off your list. They don't really fit the description of what you're looking for.

    My first wheel upgrade was from Campy Khamsins (bombproof training wheels) to this from bikehubstore. https://www.bikehubstore.com/product-p/xr31t1624.htm
    I cut about half a pound and only really felt a difference in acceleration. I bought the kit and had a local shop build them up. They're great and are my back ups to this day.

    A few years later and after months of research into chinese wheels I bought a pair of 38mm deep carbon clinchers from Yoeleo for just over $500. They're my everyday wheels now and I have several thousand miles on them. Supposedly easier to hold speed. In reality for the average cyclist like me...they look nice and the hub sounds awesome when freewheeling. Thats about it.

    If you got the cash and it'll get you excited to ride your bike, go ahead and splurge. Just don't expect a life altering difference.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    And so what? Is it really necessary to follow the sheeple? 17-18mm is wide enough for any road tire. Sure you can go to 21mm, but why?
    ok if that's the logic, then let's forget about all incremental improvement and let's just stay with an old school wheel with 15mm internal. You can still ride those wheels just fine with any road tire too.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    ok if that's the logic, then let's forget about all incremental improvement and let's just stay with an old school wheel with 15mm internal. You can still ride those wheels just fine with any road tire too.
    In case you didn't see my post in another recent thread, go down to post #6:

    https://forums.roadbikereview.com/wh...ml#post5323581

    So your logic is - if one extreme isn't good (21-22mm), why not just go back to the other extreme (14-15mm)? November Dave makes some good points too:

    https://novemberbicycles.com/blogs/b...-until-it-isnt

    Remember, if a little is good, more isn't necessarily better.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  18. #18
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    I have a lot of wheels, mainly because I'm too lazy to change tires and cassettes so often to fit my varied rides, and have tried/borrowed/tested many others.

    My enjoyment and performance that I can actually perceive does not change in the slightest depending on wheels. (unless the difference between them has to do with durability, the fear of or actually breaking of a wheel or not does impact my enjoyment)

    Tires on the other hand definitely can change your riding experience for the better if you have room for improvement.

  19. #19
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    I'll toss in another opinion just to mix it up: I'm pretty much the same type rider for fitness and exercise and I have pondered on this one myself and I have come to these conclusions:
    1. For the casual hobbyist rider, you want reliability and minimum problems, so FORGET tubulars. Clinchers only. I know nothing about tubeless, but they seem to be kind of still developing.
    2. For a 15-20mph avg. speed, I think the lighter and lower profile wheels are more bang than the higher profiles. You're more likely to benefit from the lighter weight than from profile. IMO, only consider higher profiles if your avg is over 20mph.
    3. Bulletproof, Ultralight, Cheap-Pick 2.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryZ View Post
    I'll toss in another opinion just to mix it up: I'm pretty much the same type rider for fitness and exercise and I have pondered on this one myself and I have come to these conclusions:
    1. For the casual hobbyist rider, you want reliability and minimum problems, so FORGET tubulars. Clinchers only. I know nothing about tubeless, but they seem to be kind of still developing.
    2. For a 15-20mph avg. speed, I think the lighter and lower profile wheels are more bang than the higher profiles. You're more likely to benefit from the lighter weight than from profile. IMO, only consider higher profiles if your avg is over 20mph.
    3. Bulletproof, Ultralight, Cheap-Pick 2.
    You are confused by the aero thing. Your comment about a certain speed is classic. On a given course a slower rider will actually save more time than a faster rider because they're on the road longer. Aero is always aero, even slower riders can take advantage of it. There is no speed when it actually becomes important...well, 10 or below it probably doesn't matter but above that it's going to make a difference.
    Weight ONLY matters when you change speeds. Once at a certain speed it ceases to have any effect.
    I'm pretty sure there's a real good paper written by Damon Rinard (was the head engineer at Cervelo) about aero. It's worth a read if you can find it.
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  21. #21
    changingleaf
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    A deep rim is probably not going to enhance your riding as much as a a reliable wheelset that is relatively light.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    You are confused by the aero thing. Your comment about a certain speed is classic. On a given course a slower rider will actually save more time than a faster rider because they're on the road longer. Aero is always aero, even slower riders can take advantage of it. There is no speed when it actually becomes important...well, 10 or below it probably doesn't matter but above that it's going to make a difference.
    Weight ONLY matters when you change speeds. Once at a certain speed it ceases to have any effect.
    I'm pretty sure there's a real good paper written by Damon Rinard (was the head engineer at Cervelo) about aero. It's worth a read if you can find it.
    Great point about aero impacts. I have a question about the impact of weight though. My bike felt spry and quick this morning. I got to a traffic light and I had forgotten my bidons. It’s August, I had to go back and get them. Regardless, doesn’t that weight matter when climbing? A lighter wheel should make a difference on a climb. Granted on accelerations I felt the difference. My bidons weigh 3 lbs full, combined. I’m not so sure I felt much on the punchy climbs but I didn’t do any longer climbs, mostly short and one steep.
    Last edited by PBL450; 08-12-2019 at 03:52 PM.
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  23. #23
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    Only when accelerating.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    Hreat point about aero impacts. I have a question about the impact of weight though. My bike felt spry and quick this morning. I got to a traffic light and I had forgotten my bidons. It’s August, I had to go back and get them. Regardless, doesn’t that weight matter when climbing? A lighter wheel should make a difference on a climb. Granted on accelerations I felt the difference. My bidons weigh 3 lbs full, combined. I’m not so sure I felt much on the punchy climbs but I didn’t do any longer climbs, mostly short and one steep.
    A lighter wheel does help climbing just like a lighter anything does.
    The difference between an ordinary wheel and a super light one is about the same as dumping half a water bottle (300 grams or so). There are on-line calculators if you want to know how much difference xxx grams makes. It's ain't much.

    Your bike feeling spry doesn't mean much. You could get twitchy geometry and over inflate 23mm tires if there was any correlation between feeling quick and actual higher speed.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    A lighter wheel does help climbing just like a lighter anything does.
    The difference between an ordinary wheel and a super light one is about the same as dumping half a water bottle (300 grams or so). There are on-line calculators if you want to know how much difference xxx grams makes. It's ain't much.

    Your bike feeling spry doesn't mean much. You could get twitchy geometry and over inflate 23mm tires if there was any correlation between feeling quick and actual higher speed.
    Thanks CX. Jay, I ride a twitchy bike with over inflated 23s every day so that’s a constant. Granted, “perceived” isn’t very valuable as a measure.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

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