• 06-04-2019
    TiCoyote
    Easton EA90 SL or DT Swiss 1600 Spline
    I'm building up a Giant TCR Pro Disc, and I'm looking for wheels. I'm looking for light, fast, comfortable, wide, all around wheels. I'm 145lbs and I like climbing. I also like quiet hubs.

    I was looking at the Easton EA 90SL Discs. Western Bikeworks has them for $720. Western's website says that they do not come with the 12mm Thru Axle end caps. I emailed Easton, and they said that they should come with the caps, but I e-mailed Western and they said that they "don't think they come with them and they can't order them for me." Easton told me I can get them at a LBS.

    Western Bikeworks also has the DT Swiss ER 1600 db23 Spline. They are similar width, a tiny bit shallower, about 50-100g heavier, $35 cheaper, and they come set up for 12mm thru axles.

    Are the two wheels comparable? Is the Easton notably better?
  • 06-04-2019
    cxwrench
    Better? No. And w/ customer service like Western Bikeworks seems to have I wouldn't be buying from them, that's for sure.
  • 06-05-2019
    Lombard
    If you like quiet hubs, you don't want DT Swiss. They sound like a band of cicadas. Shimano are the quietest unless you want to go with an expensive boutique brand like Stealth or Onyx.

    I think you would be best off going with a custom build - ex: Shimano hubs, DT Swiss rims. You didn't say what width your tires will be or what your budget is which would help us.
  • 06-05-2019
    cxwrench
    DT Swiss hubs that are properly maintained are not very loud. If you ignore servicing them they do make more noise. Very easy to service.
  • 06-05-2019
    Lombard
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    DT Swiss hubs that are properly maintained are not very loud. If you ignore servicing them they do make more noise. Very easy to service.

    How often would you need to service them and what would you do to keep them quiet? I've heard people on this forum say they stuff extra grease in the pawls, but after not too long, they become noisy again. Another concern I have about DT Swiss hubs is the aluminum cassette carrier being gouged by the cassette.
  • 06-05-2019
    TiCoyote
    I ordered the Eastons. I kind of had my heart set on them for a while.
  • 06-05-2019
    Lombard
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TiCoyote View Post
    I ordered the Eastons. I kind of had my heart set on them for a while.

    Problem solved! Wishing you many happy miles on them!
  • 06-05-2019
    cxwrench
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    How often would you need to service them and what would you do to keep them quiet? I've heard people on this forum say they stuff extra grease in the pawls, but after not too long, they become noisy again. Another concern I have about DT Swiss hubs is the aluminum cassette carrier being gouged by the cassette.

    There are no pawls in the DT hubs we're talking about. And it's a TERRIBLE idea to 'over grease' them in an effort to keep them quiet.
  • 06-05-2019
    Lombard
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    There are no pawls in the DT hubs we're talking about. And it's a TERRIBLE idea to 'over grease' them in an effort to keep them quiet.

    No pawls, really? How do they work then?
  • 06-05-2019
    Marc
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    No pawls, really? How do they work then?

    DT hubs use a star ratchet system: https://www.dtswiss.com/en/technolog...em-technology/

    Very durable hubs, strong engagement....that are loud, and get louder when you do the stat ratchet upgrades. One of many alternatives to pawl hubs, probably one of the better ones.
  • 06-05-2019
    cxwrench
    Good thing Marc posted the link, I was gonna reply w/ one of those LMGTFY things. :D
  • 06-05-2019
    Lombard
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Good thing Marc posted the link, I was gonna reply w/ one of those LMGTFY things. :D

    Oh you. :D But as Marc said, still noisy.

    Sorry, I'll stick with Ultegra or Dura-Ace hubs. Nice and quiet, steel or Ti cassette carrier. And since I've never experienced more than 18 points of engagement, I won't know what I'm missing. :D
  • 06-05-2019
    Marc
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Oh you. :D But as Marc said, still noisy.

    Sorry, I'll stick with Ultegra or Dura-Ace hubs. Nice and quiet, steel or Ti cassette carrier. And since I've never experienced more than 18 points of engagement, I won't know what I'm missing. :D

    Well if you want quiet...the kings of quiet, while keeping strong engagement (infinite actually) and durability, and bling, and MUSA....would be Onyx. They, too, don't use pawls/ratchets--opting instead of a sprag clutch.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PJptxHqDXk

    https://onyxrp.com/tech/

    Being a sprag clutch, they're not light however.
  • 06-06-2019
    Lombard
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Well if you want quiet...the kings of quiet, while keeping strong engagement (infinite actually) and durability, and bling, and MUSA....would be Onyx. They, too, don't use pawls/ratchets--opting instead of a sprag clutch.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PJptxHqDXk

    https://onyxrp.com/tech/

    Being a sprag clutch, they're not light however.

    Ahhh, the infinite points of engagement and ceramic bearings hard sell. We all know that ceramic bearings make you go sooooo much faster because they will spin forever in the bike stand - NOT. The infinite engagement must be a strange feel until you get used to it.

    Well, they're not that much more expensive than Dura-Ace, but I'd like to see how these hold up over the long haul before I jump in.
  • 06-07-2019
    TiCoyote
    I have a pair of Dura Ace C24 wheels that I love. Unfortunately, they don't make them with discs. The C40s are twice as expensive as the Eastons. I'm looking in the $800 and below price range. I guess the WH-RS770 are a viable alternative. A little heavier, but cheaper too.

    They're carbon, not AL. I'm not sure how I feel about that.
  • 06-07-2019
    Marc
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Ahhh, the infinite points of engagement and ceramic bearings hard sell. We all know that ceramic bearings make you go sooooo much faster because they will spin forever in the bike stand - NOT. The infinite engagement must be a strange feel until you get used to it.

    Well, they're not that much more expensive than Dura-Ace, but I'd like to see how these hold up over the long haul before I jump in.

    They're excellent hubs, ceramic bearing or not. For a comparably nice hub (Industry 9 or King) with ceramics you'll pay more.

    Instant engagement is less of a must on road since (if you're well trained) you're fairly well steady state pedaling; excepting the odd sprint. OTOH something like singletrack or cross or gravel it is nice.
  • 06-07-2019
    November Dave
    The benefit of engagement speed is at least magnified, and in my view sort of created, by gear ratios. If you have 10* engagement, but you're in 50x13, that drives the engagement that you feel down to ~2.5*. This is because your chain ring is ~4x the teeth of your cog, meaning that you turn the cog ~4* for every 1* that you turn the chain ring.

    When you are in a negative gear (say 32x42) going up a technical climb, every degree you turn the cranks is reduced at the cog, so every 10* you turn the crank means like a ~7.5* turn at the cog. This is where points of engagement get super important.

    There are mountain bike climbs that I can clean (somewhat) easily with high engagement hubs that get way harder with low engagement hubs. If you stuff up and need to remount and get going again, high engagement also makes that way easier.

    On road, high engagement is a COMPLETE AND TOTAL red herring. It's another of the bike industry's meaningless points of differentiation that people totally buy into, and that people like me can either waste electrons trying to educate people about (which typically pi$$es people off and costs sales) or smile and go along with (which generally legitimizes the mistaken belief).
  • 06-07-2019
    cxwrench
    ^Great post Dave!^
  • 06-08-2019
    Lombard
    Very informative post, Dave. Now thinking about it, if there has been one time when I would have liked closer engagement, it has been on the mountain bike starting up on a steep hill. Your explanation is spot on!

    What can I say about trying to educate the masses against buying something they don't need. All you can do is tell them the truth, but if they still want to spend the extra $$$, your conscience is clear, your wallet is heavier and theirs is lighter.