Enve Cutting Tires...
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  1. #1
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    Enve Cutting Tires...

    And the tire companies are calling BS

    https://www.bicycleretailer.com/prod...g#.XJAauRpMGhB

  2. #2
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    I have read about the Challenge hand-made "open tubular" tires having problems before this.

    There is no question this type of tire is more fragile than standard vulcanized tires. If nothing else, definitely more prone to punctures. I guess that is the trade-off if you want that plush, soft as a pillow Lincoln Town Car ride.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    And the tire companies are calling BS

    https://www.bicycleretailer.com/prod...g#.XJAauRpMGhB
    It seems evident that the tire companies haven't actually read ENVE's statement.

    ENVE never said "its their tires"...rather it is the combination of tire and rim that don't work well.
    "Refreshingly Unconcerned With The Vulgar Exigencies Of Veracity "

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    And the tire companies are calling BS

    https://www.bicycleretailer.com/prod...g#.XJAauRpMGhB
    I have about 60,000 miles on cotton open tubulars from Vit or Challenge (mostly Vit) and I'm calling BS too. Counting guys I ride with who use the same tires and have not had these types of problems either we are talking hundreds of thousands of miles problem free.
    Anecdotal sure but....................

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    I have about 60,000 miles on cotton open tubulars from Vit or Challenge (mostly Vit) and I'm calling BS too. Counting guys I ride with who use the same tires and have not had these types of problems either we are talking hundreds of thousands of miles problem free.
    Anecdotal sure but....................
    Are they riding with these rims? The argument is that the rim has a sharp edge and that this type of tires has a harder time resisting the cutting from the sharp edge. It can be a long debate about "not a problem for most tires, so it must be the tires" vs. "not a problem for these tires on most rims, so it must be the rims."

  6. #6
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    Why am a reminded of the finger pointing contest that Ford and Firestone had awhile back? Ford said Firestone Wilderness AT tires had tread separation issues and Firestone shot back it was because Ford recommended pressures too low on their Explorer SUV.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    Are they riding with these rims? The argument is that the rim has a sharp edge and that this type of tires has a harder time resisting the cutting from the sharp edge. It can be a long debate about "not a problem for most tires, so it must be the tires" vs. "not a problem for these tires on most rims, so it must be the rims."
    No, I don't know anyone who has those rims.

    I get what you are saying about potential long debates but IMO when you consider the tires has been on the market for a long time, are very common, and haven't had the problems with other rims I don't think it's a very long debate.

    Cotton open tubular tires (Vit, VeloFlex, and Challange) are extremely common, especially in the target market Enve is shooting at, so if you are going to introduce a product to the market it should either work with what everyone and their brother is using or disclose that it won't before learning the hard way.

    I can't think of a good analogy but it's kind of like introducing crank that Look and Shimano pedals will fall out of. Regardless of if it's a combination of crank and pedal I'd fault the crank maker for not making it compatible with that they know tons of people use and not disclosing that before learning the hard way.

  8. #8
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    and what's the design purpose of making sharp edges?

    And what if we were to sand down the edges a bit to make them a tad more blunt? wouldn't this be a good idea anway?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    and what's the design purpose of making sharp edges?

    And what if we were to sand down the edges a bit to make them a tad more blunt? wouldn't this be a good idea anway?
    You'd be willing to take sandpaper to a set of CF wheels that cost as much as a used car? I applaud your bravery.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    You'd be willing to take sandpaper to a set of CF wheels that cost as much as a used car? I applaud your bravery.
    I've sanded down the Zipp 404 Firecrest clinchers when I had those. These rims don't have sharp edge, but my particular rear rim kept causing random slow leak by puncturing a very tiny hole to the inner tube. So after a few tube changes it left me scratching my head as to why my innter tube kept flatting with a slow leak. Finally I took very fine sandpaper and lapped up the bead hook a bit, nothing major, but enough to end the mystery slow leak! I bought these wheels used so going to Zipp wasn't an option.

    But back to my previous question. Why did Enve need to make the edge sharper than other rim manufacturers? and couldn't we just smooth up the edge by lightly sanding it? Well if were to use my Zipp experience, and I bought used Enve wheels, then I'd take the chance to sand the Enve lightly.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    Why did Enve need to make the edge sharper than other rim manufacturers? and couldn't we just smooth up the edge by lightly sanding it?
    I didn't read very closely but I didn't get the impression sharpness is actually the problem. I think it's the design. Angle, placement, whatever. Cuts are half the warning. Also part of it is tires blowing off the rim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    I didn't read very closely but I didn't get the impression sharpness is actually the problem. I think it's the design. Angle, placement, whatever. Cuts are half the warning. Also part of it is tires blowing off the rim.
    It's the tight edge radius (smaller than the ETRTO standard). Read the blurb by Challenge on their website.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfdemicco View Post
    It's the tight edge radius (smaller than the ETRTO standard). Read the blurb by Challenge on their website.
    I just read it. That makes it pretty clear and more or less what I was speculating with the issue.

  14. #14
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    I would just use different tires before I sanded the wheels on an expensive carbon wheel set to break the edge.
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  15. #15
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    Looks like Enve may have some recent QC problems.

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/review...-wheelset.html

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bremerradkurier View Post
    Looks like Enve may have some recent QC problems.

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/review...-wheelset.html
    from the article, here's a quote from Enve's VP Product:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Pantone, VP Product and Consumer Experience

    There is this idea that if a product is damaged or breaks within a certain distance, it is worse than a product that breaks or wears out eventually. Carbon doesn’t fatigue...
    ugh, carbon does fatigue. How about that, a VP who doesn't know his stuff.

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