• 05-04-2019
    Oxtox
    finally joined the 'wider' tire movement...
    went from 23s to 25s.

    can't tell jack-squat difference.
  • 05-04-2019
    Opus51569
    Did you decrease pressure as well? Going from 23s at 100psi to 25s at 90psi should soften your ride a little.
  • 05-04-2019
    cxwrench
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Opus51569 View Post
    Did you decrease pressure as well? Going from 23s at 100psi to 25s at 90psi should soften your ride a little.

    They'll feel pretty much the same at 10psi less. There was a test published a little while ago that determined if you drop 10psi per size...23>25>28>32>35 etc you'll end up w/ the same surface tension on the tire, so the same feel. As you go up in sizes you have more air volume to protect the rim so you can drop more than 10psi...that gives you the ride quality improvement.
  • 05-04-2019
    Finx
    While '25' is by definition wider than '23', I would not classify a '25' as a 'wider' tire.

    Try a 32?
  • 05-05-2019
    Oxtox
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Opus51569 View Post
    Did you decrease pressure as well? Going from 23s at 100psi to 25s at 90psi should soften your ride a little.

    yeah, dropped the pressure from 95 to 85.

    not really disappointed as I didn't have any objections to the feel of the 23s.

    but, based on all of the hype, just thought there'd be something more discernible.
  • 05-05-2019
    changingleaf
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    They'll feel pretty much the same at 10psi less. There was a test published a little while ago that determined if you drop 10psi per size...23>25>28>32>35 etc you'll end up w/ the same surface tension on the tire, so the same feel. As you go up in sizes you have more air volume to protect the rim so you can drop more than 10psi...that gives you the ride quality improvement.

    Exactly.
  • 05-05-2019
    No Time Toulouse
    Go to 28's and you'll feel the difference!

    Seriously, about the tire pressure; the easiest way to figure out what pressure YOU need is this: Figure out how many pumps of your floor pump it takes to inflate your thinner tires to exactly the right pressure from flat. This will be same for any tire, whatever the size. For myself, my usual 90/100 on 23's corresponds to about 70/80 on my 28's, and about 35/40 on my 42's.
  • 05-05-2019
    Lombard
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by No Time Toulouse View Post
    Go to 28's and you'll feel the difference!

    This. I went from 25's to 28's and I'll never go back. Even at the same pressure, the 28's had more comfort and stability. Dropping the pressure was "icing on the cake" so-to-say.
  • 05-05-2019
    igs532
    Interesting notion here: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... comparison

    See chapter: Rolling Resistance at the Same Comfort Level (4.5 mm tire drop)

    25mm tire @ 87psi/6.0bar vs 28mm tire @ 81psi/5.6bar = same comfort level (?!) and rolling resistance


    I've always assumed that lower pressure equals more comfort per se.
  • 05-06-2019
    Lombard
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by igs532 View Post
    Interesting notion here: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... comparison

    See chapter: Rolling Resistance at the Same Comfort Level (4.5 mm tire drop)

    25mm tire @ 87psi/6.0bar vs 28mm tire @ 81psi/5.6bar = same comfort level (?!) and rolling resistance


    I've always assumed that lower pressure equals more comfort per se.

    Tests, tests. All I can say is that my hands and my arse don't lie.
  • 05-06-2019
    tlg
    I went from 23's to 25's (which measure 27), tubeless. (Still have 23's on my climbing wheelset). I'm running 65/80psi on the 25's. Sometimes less.
    There's an improvement in comfort. It's noticeable but not world changing. Though I never found 23's uncomfortable at 80/90psi.

    However.... cornering is waaay better on the 25's. A very noticeable improvement.
  • 05-06-2019
    Jay Strongbow
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by igs532 View Post
    25mm tire @ 87psi/6.0bar vs 28mm tire @ 81psi/5.6bar = same comfort level (?!) and rolling resistance[/FONT][/COLOR]

    I've always assumed that lower pressure equals more comfort per se.

    You assumed wrong where all else is not equal like the example provided.

    For example; 35mm tires at 85mm will be far far less comfortable than 25mm tires at 90psi.
    That's an extreme example but one I learned very quickly first hand when I first got a cross bike and didn't know the relationship between size and PSI.

    Rolling resistance is another thing. I didn't look at the link to know how it was tested. But most people who use multiple tire sizes use them for multiple surfaces to so a controlled experiment is kinda useless.
    There is some art to tires selection. No one in their right mind would use 25mm tires at 90psi for a gravel race if, hypothetically, that combo showed as best rolling resistance in some scientific test. Just like no one riding on a wood track should care about what a test that accurately determined best rolling resistance on crappy asphalt roads has to say.
  • 05-06-2019
    cxwrench
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by igs532 View Post
    [FONT="]Interesting notion here: [/FONT]https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... comparison

    See chapter: Rolling Resistance at the Same Comfort Level (4.5 mm tire drop)
    [FONT="]
    25mm tire @ 87psi/6.0bar vs 28mm tire @ 81psi/5.6bar = same comfort level (?!) and rolling resistance[/FONT]


    I've always assumed that lower pressure equals more comfort per se.

    Read my post (#3). If you go up a size and lower the pressure a little the 'feel' remains the same. Larger volume at the same pressure actually gets firmer. Imagine a 2.5" mtb tire at 80psi...if you didn't blow the rim to pieces it would feel like concrete. The secret to a better ride is going lower than the 10psi per tire size. I run my 44mm Compass tires at 35f/40r.
  • 05-06-2019
    pmf
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Oxtox View Post
    yeah, dropped the pressure from 95 to 85.

    not really disappointed as I didn't have any objections to the feel of the 23s.

    but, based on all of the hype, just thought there'd be something more discernible.

    You need to try latex tubes in them
  • 05-06-2019
    cxwrench
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    You need to try latex tubes in them

    That won't make a big difference either unless he drops the pressure more. Pressure is pressure, the material holding it isn't going change the way it feels a bunch. No matter what it's still 85 psi.
  • 05-06-2019
    Lombard
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Read my post (#3). If you go up a size and lower the pressure a little the 'feel' remains the same. Larger volume at the same pressure actually gets firmer. Imagine a 2.5" mtb tire at 80psi...if you didn't blow the rim to pieces it would feel like concrete. The secret to a better ride is going lower than the 10psi per tire size. I run my 44mm Compass tires at 35f/40r.

    That's what I use on my 650b x 47 WTB Byways. I could probably use lower, but if I remember correctly, at 170#, I weigh a bit more than you do.
  • 05-06-2019
    Oxtox
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    You need to try latex tubes in them

    not gonna happen...neither is trying 32s.

    the 25s with butyl tubes are fine, they just didn't produce a 'wow' moment.
  • 05-06-2019
    Lombard
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Oxtox View Post
    not gonna happen...neither is trying 32s.

    the 25s with butyl tubes are fine, they just didn't produce a 'wow' moment.

    PMF is trolling you dude. I guess you didn't see the other PMF post in the other thread where he said he felt no detectable difference between latex and butyl tubes, but you should try them so you can pump up your tires every day.
  • 05-06-2019
    cxwrench
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    That's what I use on my 650b x 47 WTB Byways. I could probably use lower, but if I remember correctly, at 170#, I weigh a bit more than you do.

    We're the same person, so I weigh 170 as well.
  • 05-06-2019
    Opus51569
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    We're the same person, so I weigh 170 as well.

    Dang. Wish I could weigh 170 that easily...


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  • 05-06-2019
    Finx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Oxtox View Post
    not gonna happen...neither is trying 32s.

    the 25s with butyl tubes are fine, they just didn't produce a 'wow' moment.

    You stopped at 25mm. You have *not* joined the 'wider' tire movement (per your thread title)

    Come back when you've gone through a couple of sets of 32's or 38's.. :)
  • 05-06-2019
    SPlKE
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Opus51569 View Post
    Dang. Wish I could weigh 170 that easily...

    I wish I could join the wide tire revolution.

    Unfortunately, my 1997 LeMond Alpe d'Huez frame and fork are stuck in the 23 era.

    The frame geometry is so incredibly freakin perfect for me... and I have it dialed in so perfectly with all the NOS campy record and chorus components I've added over the years, I can't imagine buying a new bike to run wider tires. I did add Easton CF bars, which helps a lot with the 23-hard-tire vibration. But I'd love to be running some wider, lower pressure tires.
  • 05-07-2019
    pmf
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    PMF is trolling you dude. I guess you didn't see the other PMF post in the other thread where he said he felt no detectable difference between latex and butyl tubes, but you should try them so you can pump up your tires every day.

    Oh Lombard ... you so get me.
  • 05-07-2019
    Lombard
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SPlKE View Post
    I wish I could join the wide tire revolution.

    Unfortunately, my 1997 LeMond Alpe d'Huez frame and fork are stuck in the 23 era.

    The frame geometry is so incredibly freakin perfect for me... and I have it dialed in so perfectly with all the NOS campy record and chorus components I've added over the years, I can't imagine buying a new bike to run wider tires. I did add Easton CF bars, which helps a lot with the 23-hard-tire vibration. But I'd love to be running some wider, lower pressure tires.

    You don't need wider tires, the Prolink you use gives you that smoother wider-tire ride. :thumbsup:
  • 05-07-2019
    Lombard
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    We're the same person, so I weigh 170 as well.

    Oh, how can I forget, CX Lombard!