Road Bike, Cycling Forums banner

First Wheel Keeps coming out of True

5K views 46 replies 13 participants last post by  November Dave 
#1 ·
Built up rear 36h Archetype / T11 / DT Swiss Comps. Build went well with advice here. But pretty much after every ride I have to mess with it. Sometimes not much - but after anything pot-hole-ish there's spots where it comes out pretty bad.

I'm finding also that every once in a while a NDS spoke will completely lose tension.

I'm pretty sure this all has to do with spoke twist? I could be wrong so please advize - but whenever I go back to fix in the stand - I can feel the spoke turning too - so I try to turn around more and come back. Trouble is when I go back it still feels like it's turning.

Wondering if at this point if I keep trying to fix issues that eventually it will "twist itself out" - whereby constant monkeying - eventually the spokes will settle in. Or if I should just undo the whole thing and start from just a thread showing and get some kind of clamp? Or should I pull em all out and use a different spoke prep? I used linseed oil initially with some lube where the hole meets the nip.

Can someone also advize PSI? Running 28 Conti 4 Seasons @ 85-90 PSI / 32 Vittoria Hyper @ 80-85 PSI.
 
See less See more
#5 ·
Ditto. Quality parts collection, which leaves how it was built.
 
#6 ·
Two things -

1) Read my site all about spoke twist and windup relief and all that kinda stuff. Perform it all to the n'th degree and loose spokes and going outta true will be a thing of the past. I haven't had a wheel - MTB, road, gravel, track - that's needed touching post-build for 25 years. It's all in the details.

2) Lower those tire pressures! Bigtime.

3) Ok, three things - well-built wheels don't need any kind of sticky stuff to prevent the nipples from unscrewing. Sufficient tension takes care of that.
 
#12 ·
You should be able to 'feel' spokes twisting as you're adding tension after a while. You can feel the spoke break free of the nipple when you turn it. With spokes like DT Comp it should be pretty obvious when the spoke is twisting even though it's a round spoke.
 
#19 ·
First build, put a piece of tape on the spoke, and watch it wind up and unwind when you go 1/2 turn back to 1/4 turn on the nipple. If it unwinds all the way, you just tightened it 1/4 turn. If it didn't come back to original position, it is wound up, turn it 3/4 turn can come back 1/2.... you get it ?
 
#22 ·
This method works as long as the tape doesn't slip around the spoke.

I wanna know if the OP has lowered his ridiculously high tire pressure yet...
Old habits die hard. But to be fair, we still don't know how much the OP weighs.
 
#32 ·
I just absolutely love how these threads start, and then, especially, how they end.

How is it any newbie even subjects themselves to what goes on here, lol?

Between that, and also the RBR hyenas sniping at each other while feasting on newbie carcass, it's a wonder 'spoke-twist' isn't really about neuronal synapses bungee jumping out of turn :p

Semaphore "flag" is officially raised.

Jmcgg333, welcome to the Nut House.

You can check in any time you like, but you can never leave.
 
#33 ·
Umm, I don't see what you found inapproprate in this thread.
 
#36 ·
People focus a ton on windup, which is justified, but I find that spoke line correction, getting all the parts to settle into their final position, and de-stressing are more important. Most of our builds go out with bladed spokes, on which it is super easy to avoid any windup, yet sometimes a build takes somewhat south of an eternity to finally settle down.

My perspective on Archetypes is that they are nice rims, but they can be a super b---h on wheels to get settled down. Whenever I build a set with them, I expect that I will spend a lot more time getting them stable to where they don't move under stress (we use some proprietary methods to get them there and check that they are finally there, these are not subtle or gentle methods). Compared to, say, a HED Belgium+, it might take 3 or 4 extra rounds of work to get an Archetype completely stable. Our one known problem build from 2017 was coincidentally an Archetype. What causes this? Search me. I just know our experience. Not saying they aren't nice rims, as they are, but in my experience they take extra work to get stable.
 
#37 ·
Interesting. I hear you on stress relieving being more than just negating windup. Things like getting the spokes to seat into the hub flanges and rim bed. I can count on my readings on the Park meter dropping by at least 3 or 4 graduations after my first round of stress relieving.

Do you have any experience building the newer H+ Son Hydras? I'm building up a set of those now. Interestingly, while in the past, I've prided myself in being able to say my wheels have never pinged (not even while stress relieving), these wheels pinged while I was relieving them!

So when you say it takes awhile for the Archetypes to "settle down", I'm wondering if I'll have the same experience with the Hydras.
 
#38 ·
Haven't built all that many Hydras, but the ones I've built haven't required the same level of extra work that Archetypes have.

General disclaimer - all of this is just my experience. Build enough wheels, you'll see a lot of stuff. Happy to share experiences and insights, but take them for what they are. I don't have any agenda to promote one product over another here (we have our own big site where we can do that, but generally we don't even really do that there).
 
#39 ·
Haven't built all that many Hydras, but the ones I've built haven't required the same level of extra work that Archetypes have.

General disclaimer - all of this is just my experience. Build enough wheels, you'll see a lot of stuff. Happy to share experiences and insights, but take them for what they are. I don't have any agenda to promote one product over another here (we have our own big site where we can do that, but generally we don't even really do that there).
Experience counts for a lot. I think most of the people who have been on this forum for awhile know you well enough to know that you don't come here to shill. :D

That's good to know about the Hydras!
 
#45 · (Edited)
I certainly didn't take any offense at Lombard's post, nor would I classify myself as difficult. Thick skinned? Pachydermically so.

Despite having been on forums as a wheel builder* for about 8 years now, having expressed nothing but genuinely held and helpfully intended thoughts, it all too often happens that I have to waste scarce time defending things I've said. All too often, this looks something like me presenting four valid tests we've done, corroborated by three other tests that we had nothing to do with, and thousands of wheels built worth of experience, going against a stubbornly held "but I know what I know even if I have no evidence to show for it!"

Four years ago, I took dear sweet HELL on a forum from a "GD credentialed engineer!!" who just wouldn't f---ing be told that tire volume changed inflation equivalencies. Wouldn't accept either Boyle's or Laplace's Laws, couldn't take any logical iterative/evidential arguments, claimed that valve pressures had nothing to do with it, and while he never went ad hominem, he did quite strongly state that I had absolutely no idea what I was talking about on that or any other topic. Now he is that forum's foremost advocate of the variable relationship between tire pressure and volume. I don't lose sleep over this crap, but, you know...

Other professionals, and I will pointedly include Ergott, Boyd, and CXWrench** in this, also suffer the same with regularity despite what tons of evidence would show as their genuine desire to help. I've excluded some others on purpose and still others through omission, but those guys stand out in particular.

It's not that we always have the right answer and shut up and listen, it's that we spend our lives doing this, get the repetitions, work with the products, and have our ears keenly tuned to what's happening. I know that I get TONS of back channel info that never makes it to the public, and I'm sure they do as well. It makes a difference.

*I now - the better part of a decade, two successful rim designs in the CV, and who even knows how many wheels built backing me - call myself a wheel builder with some assurance. This is not a designation which I've self-conferred flippantly. Others may be quicker to self identify as such, there's no wallet-sized card that say you are or aren't a wheel builder (and if there is I don't trust it).

** Ok, ok, CX can be a little difficult, but good intentions are always in there, and he's usually right.

***Edit - Most important part! The Close Encounters theme is what I hear most often when doing the mid-build-tone-pluck. All the darn time, in fact.
 
#47 ·
Above the butt of the bibs of every kit we've ever done, it says "November." A few years ago, I was doing a marathon MTB race and this really cute Canadian woman was just crushing it in the tech parts where I was stronger in the straight aheads where she would draft, so we rode together for several hours. At one point she said "I just can't take pulls at this pace I hope you don't mind" to which I replied "just tell me my butt looks nice and I'll keep going all day." The she says "oh, you're already MY Mr. November!" Nicest thing I've ever been told.

It took me a long time to join this forum. We'd been in business 13 months by 12/11.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top