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  1. #1
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    GP 5000 vs Schwalbe Pro One TL comparison

    GP 5000 vs Schwalbe Pro One TL comparison-conti_gp5000_tubeless_700x25.jpg

    I've been running Schwalbe Pro one tubeless in 700x25c for two years now. I do about 10k miles a year, mostly road. Recently switched to the new GP 5000 tubeless 700x25c. My observations and experience so far, after one hilly road ride on the GP 5000's. I'm a skinny cat 2, pretty quick descender. 160lbs, 6-3". Bike 60cm Cervelo S3 disc, Light Bicycle 45mm carbon hooked bead wheelset, 21mm internal width. Very wide. Orange seal (standard).

    The 700x25c Schwalbes measure 29.9mm wide on my wheels.
    I usually run them around 85psi front, 90psi rear for fast club rides. 5psi lower on solo rides. I usually got around 1500 miles on rear, 2500-3000 on the front. When I wasn't being lazy, I'd rotate the tires front to back to extend the life a bit.

    The Schwalbe's had average puncture resistance. Quite often little holes would self seal without me knowing it. I tossed out probably 3-4 tire prematurely from big cuts. Nothing unique to the Schwalbe as those cuts would have ruined a tube type tire as well. Ride quality was excellent. Grip also excellent although they were less grippy in cold weather. I have a few downhill KOM's so I do push the tires hard.

    First impressions on the Conti GP 5000s. First off was the width. They are lower volume than the Schwalbe in the same size. Conti's measured 27.2mm on the same wheel. Inflated to the same 80/85psi I usually run, I was surprised to find that they actually damp vibration and big hits better than the larger volume Schwalbe. There is clearly some additional tech there to absorb vibration. Grip wise, I set another KOM descent on my first ride (chasing Mark Cavendish no less :P). That speaks to confidence, steering precision and grip. No flats but I have barely started riding them. I couldn't comment on rolling resistance. They felt fast but then so did the Schwalbes. One interesting thing with the 25's is that on my wheel they have that ideal shape to be ever so slightly narrower than the wheel. Recent data from a few sources shows that having the wheel a mm or two proud of the sidewall is the lowest drag. The Schwalbes in contrast, hung over the side just a wee bit. I suspect, but can't confirm, that the 700x28 GP5000 would be about the same volume as the 700x25 Schwalble Pro One


    So I still have to see how the GP 5000's last and how puncture resistant they are. I'll update this thread when I have more miles on them. So far, I love them and feel they are the next generation of tubeless road tires. But damn they are expensive!
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  2. #2
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emilio700 View Post
    When I wasn't being lazy, I'd rotate the tires front to back to extend the life a bit.
    Interesting that they're so much narrower. You know why rotating tires is a bad idea, right?
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  3. #3
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    Great review, thanks. I'm also a fan of the Pro One TL but was hesitant on trying the 5k since I think it's their first road tubeless tire. Still have a small batch of other tires to try also.
    Don't be surprised if they expand a little after a week or two.

    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Interesting that they're so much narrower. You know why rotating tires is a bad idea, right?
    Ok, I'll bite...Why is it a bad idea to rotate? I used to do also but now run a 23/25 combo.
    In reference to the Assault on Mt Mitchell...
    Quote Originally Posted by merckx56
    The easier solution is to find a biker bar in Spartanburg the night before, go in and pick a fight. The ass-whipping you'll get will be far less painful than the one Mitchell will give you the next day!

  4. #4
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by upstateSC-rider View Post
    Great review, thanks. I'm also a fan of the Pro One TL but was hesitant on trying the 5k since I think it's their first road tubeless tire. Still have a small batch of other tires to try also.
    Don't be surprised if they expand a little after a week or two.



    Ok, I'll bite...Why is it a bad idea to rotate? I used to do also but now run a 23/25 combo.
    You ALWAYS want the best tire that ideally has the lowest chance of flatting on the front. If you flat at the rear it's usually not too hard to control the bike...you flat on the front, especially in a turn, you're going down. Always have the newest/least damaged tire on the front.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    You ALWAYS want the best tire that ideally has the lowest chance of flatting on the front. If you flat at the rear it's usually not too hard to control the bike...you flat on the front, especially in a turn, you're going down. Always have the newest/least damaged tire on the front.
    When the rear is worn out, moving the front to the rear and replacing the front with new is a better way to optimize tire use.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    When the rear is worn out, moving the front to the rear and replacing the front with new is a better way to optimize tire use.
    CX's reason is completely sound but I, and I believe the the OP, meant this way of moving front to rear and installing a new front, sorry for not being clear.

    Just looked and the 5k's have been tested by the rolling resistance test guys and look good, look forward to trying them in the future.
    https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...d-bike-reviews
    In reference to the Assault on Mt Mitchell...
    Quote Originally Posted by merckx56
    The easier solution is to find a biker bar in Spartanburg the night before, go in and pick a fight. The ass-whipping you'll get will be far less painful than the one Mitchell will give you the next day!

  7. #7
    changingleaf
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    Sound advice, but I will note that tubeless tires are generally much safer than tube-type tires when they flat because unless you get a very big cut the air comes out slowly.

  8. #8
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    Just read the report from bicyclerollingresistance.Com

    Very impressive. We are fully into the era where the latest tubeless tires do virtually everything better than the best tubular tires.

  9. #9
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emilio700 View Post
    Just read the report from bicyclerollingresistance.Com

    Very impressive. We are fully into the era where the latest tubeless tires do virtually everything better than the best tubular tires.
    With the exception of being heavier. And having worse ride quality. And being really really messy when you do flat. But yeah, other than those things they're better.
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    For someone who has never owned a tubular wheel... what exactly DO you do when you cut one mid-ride (assuming you don't have a support vehicle following you) ? Walk?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finx View Post
    For someone who has never owned a tubular wheel... what exactly DO you do when you cut one mid-ride (assuming you don't have a support vehicle following you) ? Walk?
    You would carry a spare with you.
    You can't fix stupid.

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    I kind of wish it were legal to staple people in the face.

  12. #12
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finx View Post
    For someone who has never owned a tubular wheel... what exactly DO you do when you cut one mid-ride (assuming you don't have a support vehicle following you) ? Walk?
    Take your pick:





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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    With the exception of being heavier. And having worse ride quality. And being really really messy when you do flat. But yeah, other than those things they're better.
    Raced on all manner of tubulars, road and cyclocross. The best tubeless match them in ride quality. The GP5000 goes even further, feeling like my old school Vittoria tubulars. That they self heal small punctures that destroy a tubular is a game changer. If you cut one bad enough to require a tube, you would also be pulling a well glued tubular off your carbon wheel without the benefit of shop tools. You and I both know how much fun that is on the road. Shake the tubeless goo out, slap a tube in and go. I'd much rather do that and have it be locked in than tippy toe riding an unglued tubular all the way home.

    Initial install is also a lot easier that tubulars. Mount the tubeless like a regualr tire but don't worry about pinching the tube, because there isn't one. Use your modern bead seater pump or compressed air to seat bead. Use $3 syringe (Amazon) to squirt sealant into valve. Install valve core. Inflate. Ride until the tire is worn out because you will probably never flat. Small holes self heal while you are riding, most of the time without you even noticing.

    I'm pretty proficient at installing tubulars by now (30 years..) but it's still a messy, stinky time consuming PITA compared to installing a new tubeless tire.

    Weight? Who cares about a few grams. I stopped being a weight weenie decades ago.

    So unless you have actually ridden an equivalent bike setup on GP5000's vs your favorite (fragile) tubular race tire, I'd guess you are simply offering a grumpy old school response without direct personal experience.

    Try them.
    Last edited by Emilio700; 2 Weeks Ago at 04:36 PM.
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  14. #14
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    I'm a tubeless fan also, in fact I first converted my old Bontrager race wheels to tubeless back when Hutchinson was the only tire player in town and Stan's sold the kit. I got the feel of a tubed 25mm tire with my tubeless 23mm in an old Tarmac frame that wouldn't fit a 25.
    Weight is a non-issue for me also since they're fairly close and I carry a spare tube/CO2 whether I'm running a tube or not.
    I did have a flat with tubeless about 3 years ago when the initial run of Pro One's were released and proven to be fragile, a little messy but definitely not a big deal.
    In reference to the Assault on Mt Mitchell...
    Quote Originally Posted by merckx56
    The easier solution is to find a biker bar in Spartanburg the night before, go in and pick a fight. The ass-whipping you'll get will be far less painful than the one Mitchell will give you the next day!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    You ALWAYS want the best tire that ideally has the lowest chance of flatting on the front. If you flat at the rear it's usually not too hard to control the bike...you flat on the front, especially in a turn, you're going down. Always have the newest/least damaged tire on the front.
    This.

    Quote Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    When the rear is worn out, moving the front to the rear and replacing the front with new is a better way to optimize tire use.
    And this.

    I forget who it was on these forums who said it, but it goes like this. The way to rotate bike tires is like wiping after taking a dump. Always front to back and what comes off the rear goes in the trash.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

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  16. #16
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    forget tubeless! Latex tube plus vittoria corsa or veloflex at the front for feel and control. Latex tube and Vittoria rubino or Conti at the rear for longevity.

    Throwing out tubeless prematurely because of big cuts.... will get expensive.
    Go tubeless when you start to run 32c or bigger tires at lower psi.

    and rolling resistance isn't all that important at speed. Wind resistance from tire profile is MUCH more important at speed, has something to do with square of speed. The Conti, having a smaller overall width, will always give a better wind resistance profile than the fatter Schwable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    forget tubeless! Latex tube plus vittoria corsa or veloflex at the front for feel and control. Latex tube and Vittoria rubino or Conti at the rear for longevity.

    Throwing out tubeless prematurely because of big cuts.... will get expensive.
    Go tubeless when you start to run 32c or bigger tires at lower psi.

    and rolling resistance isn't all that important at speed. Wind resistance from tire profile is MUCH more important at speed, has something to do with square of speed. The Conti, having a smaller overall width, will always give a better wind resistance profile than the fatter Schwable.
    I think you are in the wrong thread. The riders that clicked in have already decided to run tubeless and might be interested in user experiences between two of the top tires.

    Whether to go tubeless or not is valid question and great subject for a new thread.

    And latex tubes, really? Really expensive, virtually no puncture resistance, virtually impossible to patch and oh yes, more rolling resistance that a state of the art tubeless.

    Like cxwrench, I would encourage you to actually try a modern tubeless setup for a few hundred miles before you toss the baby out with the bathwater.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    forget tubeless! Latex tube plus vittoria corsa or veloflex at the front for feel and control. Latex tube and Vittoria rubino or Conti at the rear for longevity.

    Throwing out tubeless prematurely because of big cuts.... will get expensive.
    Go tubeless when you start to run 32c or bigger tires at lower psi.

    and rolling resistance isn't all that important at speed. Wind resistance from tire profile is MUCH more important at speed, has something to do with square of speed. The Conti, having a smaller overall width, will always give a better wind resistance profile than the fatter Schwable.
    Just curious if you know the width of each of those tires at 100 psi (23mm and 25mm)? I have some challenging geometry to contend with.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emilio700 View Post
    Like cxwrench, I would encourage you to actually try a modern tubeless setup for a few hundred miles before you toss the baby out with the bathwater.
    Where did you come up with this? CXWrench did not say this.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    and rolling resistance isn't all that important at speed. Wind resistance from tire profile is MUCH more important at speed, has something to do with square of speed. The Conti, having a smaller overall width, will always give a better wind resistance profile than the fatter Schwable.
    It is more correct to say that rolling resistance is a lower portion of total resistance when at speed. Rolling resistance essentially increases linearly with speed. The power required to overcome aero drag increases with the CUBE of speed. While tire width does have a small aero effect, it is much smaller than the rolling resistance, which you seem to want to ignore. Curious.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Where did you come up with this? CXWrench did not say this.
    Say what exactly? He (she?) Expressed an opposing view when I offered that state-of-the-art tubeless tires do everything a tubular does but better. I guess that person has never actually tried a modern tubeless conversion. Perhaps we are both wrong. I just encouraged anyone who is vehemently against tubeless tires to actually live with them for a few hundred miles. Particularly those riders who are advocating tubulars for training.

    Meanwhile, cycling weekly just published a review of a few of the GP5000 variants and linked some test data.

    https://www.cyclingweekly.com/review...4-years-making

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emilio700 View Post
    I think you are in the wrong thread. The riders that clicked in have already decided to run tubeless and might be interested in user experiences between two of the top tires.

    Whether to go tubeless or not is valid question and great subject for a new thread.

    And latex tubes, really? Really expensive, virtually no puncture resistance, virtually impossible to patch and oh yes, more rolling resistance that a state of the art tubeless.

    Like cxwrench, I would encourage you to actually try a modern tubeless setup for a few hundred miles before you toss the baby out with the bathwater.
    I have posted a few long and detailed replies about tubeless and my experience with it in this forum. And November Dave (an experience wheelbuilder himself) has also chimed in his opinions about road tubeless. Tubeless has its place, but running a 25c tubeless is not one of those place IMO. I'll let you search for my past threads if you care all that much.

    And a latex tube costs l$8 on probikekit, not that outrageous. And I've patched many latex tubes before using a cut piece of another latex tube and tubular glue. It works just as well as patching a butyl tube.

    Latex tube plus vit corsa/veloflex will own any tubeless tire in term of control and comfort. Tubeless tires, by necessity, have a too thick of a carcass to offer good feel.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    It is more correct to say that rolling resistance is a lower portion of total resistance when at speed. Rolling resistance essentially increases linearly with speed. The power required to overcome aero drag increases with the CUBE of speed. While tire width does have a small aero effect, it is much smaller than the rolling resistance, which you seem to want to ignore. Curious.
    much smaller effect?? Define smaller. But Zipp and Specialize will disagree with you on this based on their own wind tunnel test between 23c vs 25c tires on their own wheels.

    However, you're right about the mathematical relationships

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Take your pick:





    over the last 3 years, I've had 4 flats on tub. I was successful in fixing 3 of those flats. I carry a very small tube of superglue (it's size half your pinky, they sell these in bulk on ebay), a piece of napkin paper, and 1.5 oz of stans (use the 2oz stans bottle). So when I got those 3 punctures, I first superglue the outside of the tire, the napkin is to pressdown on the tire so I wouldn't get superglue on my finger (superglue activates with water so it cures instantly). Then remove the valvecore and dump in the Stans. Then pump up the tire and rotate. This fixed 3 flats, 2 of those flats still held today, 1 flat did hold but after putting some mileage on the sealed hole didn't hold and so I threw the tire away since it was beginning to square off.

    But one time I had to change the entire out because the cut was just too big and it was on the sidewall so I knew she was a goner.

    out here in Socal roads are nice and smooth, and so risk of flats are relatively low, so it's acceptable for me to use tub. If roads are bad, then I wouldn't. Next step on my to-learn skills is how to actually repair a tub by cutting it open, patch the tube, and sew it back. This one guy I know does it quite efficiently! The hardest part is removing the damn tubular glue from the base tape so you can sew it back up after you cut it open, and i find myself having no patient here so I threw the tire away, but maybe i'll give it another go again

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    much smaller effect?? Define smaller. But Zipp and Specialize will disagree with you on this based on their own wind tunnel test between 23c vs 25c tires on their own wheels.

    However, you're right about the mathematical relationships
    At 25 mph, total rolling resistance is about 55 watts. That's from tires, bearings, and chain. Tires are about 20% of that, though that doesn't include suspension losses (the vibrations transmitted to the rider because the tire is not perfectly compliant). My read of the literature is that tire shape (and related surface structure) can be relatively significant compared to width. IOW, width alone is not completely determinate.

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