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  1. #1
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    After running a set of Zipp 454's for most of the summer, I switched back to my old Ultegra/ HED Belgium wheelset to help deal with the high winds coming off of the ocean. Strava times have stayed the same. Was expecting a slight decrease here or there.
    Last edited by morgan1819; 08-17-2018 at 06:33 AM.

  2. #2
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    Last edited by Mike T.; 08-16-2018 at 05:57 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Any Star Wars fans out there with small wieners?
    Last edited by morgan1819; 08-17-2018 at 06:22 AM.

  4. #4
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    after getting a set of C24s, was able to do the Kessel Run in under 11 parsecs...
    Ancient Astronaut theorists say, 'YES!'

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by morgan1819 View Post
    Strava times have stayed the same. Was expecting a slight decrease here or there.
    Kind of confirms November Wheels post about aero wheels and fantasy gains. Waste of money really.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxtox View Post
    after getting a set of C24s, was able to do the Kessel Run in under 11 parsecs...
    You just made my day

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by morgan1819 View Post
    After running a set of Zipp 454's for most of the summer, I switched back to my old Ultegra/ HED Belgium wheelset to help deal with the high winds coming off of the ocean. Strava times have stayed the same. Was expecting a slight decrease here or there.
    While I tend to agree that "in general", the difference in avg speed gained/lost for an avg spirited cyclist riding on the street, will be "almost zero gained/lost". However, the problem with using Strava times for such "averages" can be misleading. Why? Because on the street, a shallower wheels will "on average" accelerate faster from a stop sign or red light, while the aero wheels will be slightly faster on longer stretches of road without stop signs/red lights. In the end, any difference in "avg speed" resulting from faster acceleration (shallow wheels) and longer-but-sustained higher speed (aero wheels) will neutralize each other out, and thus your avg Strava times will remain essentially the same.

    But make no mistake, the aero wheels will definitely hold a higher avg speed in a long sustained effort on roads without much stop signs and red lights. Personally, going by my own unscientific observation, compared to my shallow alumuninum wheels, I think I average about 1 to maybe 1.5 mph faster with my 55mm Easton Aero 55 tubular wheels when going hard at 27-30 mph, especially if there is a slight tail or even cross-tail wind, I'd flying like a sail reaching 32-33 mph on the flat all by myself (not drafting a pack). It's very hard for me to reach 30 mph with shallow wheels unless there is a slight 2% downhill or a good tail wind.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    But make no mistake, the aero wheels will definitely hold a higher avg speed in a long sustained effort on roads without much. .
    The generalizations and fantasy ride speeds continue. I think deep dish pizza wheels make amateurs “think” they are riding fast by the vertical stiffness and “whooshing” sounds. Lol.

  9. #9
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    I see a difference of about 0.5 to 1mph out of the draft over say 28mph in the right wind conditions - Not a situation that is a high percentage of my ride time to be sure, its in sprints to a land mark in a group ride almost always, passing someone for a finish place. In this situation they can make the difference between 1st or 3rd place for sure. Otherwise I'm sure the contribute something on long solo rides like 100 and more but not something I have tried to or could quantify as there are too many other variables.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    Kind of confirms November Wheels post about aero wheels and fantasy gains. Waste of money really.
    ^This.^
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    Kind of confirms November Wheels post about aero wheels and fantasy gains. Waste of money really.
    Can you link it here? Can't find it but, I'd like to read it....

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    I see a difference of about 0.5 to 1mph out of the draft over say 28mph in the right wind conditions - Not a situation that is a high percentage of my ride time to be sure, its in sprints to a land mark in a group ride almost always, passing someone for a finish place. In this situation they can make the difference between 1st or 3rd place for sure. Otherwise I'm sure the contribute something on long solo rides like 100 and more but not something I have tried to or could quantify as there are too many other variables.
    Your numbers are significantly higher than the research suggests. The fastest wheels on the planet are about 0.4 mph faster than a 32 spoke box section rim setup at 25 mph. 0.3 mph faster at 20 mph.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    Your numbers are significantly higher than the research suggests. The fastest wheels on the planet are about 0.4 mph faster than a 32 spoke box section rim setup at 25 mph. 0.3 mph faster at 20 mph.
    Maybe a bias high but they seem to be right in the hunt from what you quoted on the low side of the range I quoted wich is 0.5mph considering mph range is higher than your numbers and the wheels I'm comparing against are Shimano RS81s which are pretty much box section rims with fewer spokes. Enve 4.5s are not the fastest on the planet but they aren't slugs. Even at 0.3 mph that's the difference between losing a few places and winning on a high speed (which ends up being 31 to 32 mph on flat ones for a short period) shootout to a road sign in a weekend group ride so they can help in the right situation.

    On Edit - Here's a link with actual real world data not wind tunnel which has results higher than my estimate.

    https://www.cyclingweekly.com/videos...o-wheels-video
    Last edited by Srode; 08-24-2018 at 04:17 AM.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    Your numbers are significantly higher than the research suggests. The fastest wheels on the planet are about 0.4 mph faster than a 32 spoke box section rim setup at 25 mph. 0.3 mph faster at 20 mph.
    I'd be more interested in knowing the difference in watts required to go the same speed of, say, 25 or 20. Any idea?

    I don't do TTs and certainly not about to win a race via solo breakaway. And .3 won't impact my fun riding solo. I do my share of pulls but if it's too slow by .3 for anyone they can take over.

    Basically for my riding and races I don't see going .3 faster really mattering much.

    But if I'm using less watts to be where I want to be over the course of say 60 miles that could be a big deal. Or maybe it wouldn't. Probably impossible to measure the correlation between putting out a few less watts over the entire course and then being able to use what you saved when it matters.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    I'd be more interested in knowing the difference in watts required to go the same speed of, say, 25 or 20. Any idea?

    I don't do TTs and certainly not about to win a race via solo breakaway. And .3 won't impact my fun riding solo. I do my share of pulls but if it's too slow by .3 for anyone they can take over.

    Basically for my riding and races I don't see going .3 faster really mattering much.

    But if I'm using less watts to be where I want to be over the course of say 60 miles that could be a big deal. Or maybe it wouldn't. Probably impossible to measure the correlation between putting out a few less watts over the entire course and then being able to use what you saved when it matters.
    This is why there is such a huge difference in opinion on the importance of aero equipment here vs. say slowtwitch. 1.5s/km at 25mph just for a set of wheels is worth it for those trying to beat the clock. Not so much for everyday riders/commuters/enthusiast/touring riders.

    As far as watts go I'd wag 10W for 0.4mph..just a wag. Not enough to really notice on a group ride or even solo when varying position and effort. I've only been able to tease out differences in equipment when at threshold for long periods of time in the same position.

    With all that said, there is definitely something to wider rims (both internal and external). Depth is important as well as shape but, guys who neglect width are missing the boat.

  16. #16
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    Just to add...tires (crr)are way more noticeable regarding speed differences than wheels imo. Put a bad rolling tire on those wide, deep wheels and you'll easily erase any gains.

  17. #17
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    The only time I ever notice a difference in effort is while drafting behind something. I have many different bikes, with many different wheels and tires, my times are always comparable.

    Having said that a proper tuck makes a huge difference in speed. The person matters way more than the bike in pretty much every way you can think of.
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  18. #18
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    Earlier this season I had the opportunity to buy a set of Roval CLX 32 wheels used. I tried them for a week and was surprised. They felt different, but in the end no difference in speed. They're a bit lighter than my stock DT Swiss 470db, but no help, I guess. Even more surprising was that I was running GP 4000s II on the Rovals and GP 4 Season on the DT Swiss. I guess at the speeds I ride the differences aren't as pronounced as those that ride at higher speeds. I'm a 17-18MPH average rider.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
    Earlier this season I had the opportunity to buy a set of Roval CLX 32 wheels used. I tried them for a week and was surprised. They felt different, but in the end no difference in speed. They're a bit lighter than my stock DT Swiss 470db, but no help, I guess. Even more surprising was that I was running GP 4000s II on the Rovals and GP 4 Season on the DT Swiss. I guess at the speeds I ride the differences aren't as pronounced as those that ride at higher speeds. I'm a 17-18MPH average rider.
    Yep. Lighter wheels will make you FEEL faster because they will accelerate better. Once up to speed, you will hardly notice a difference.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Yep. Lighter wheels will make you FEEL faster because they will accelerate better. Once up to speed, you will hardly notice a difference.
    Needless to say, I passed on them. They're really nice wheels, but too expensive. I might buy a second set of wheels so I can run two sets of tires easily, but I'll look at aluminum from DT Swiss, Fulcrum, Easton, etc. Lots of choices.

    One thing I did notice about the carbon wheels: less gyroscopic stabilization coasting down hills at higher speeds. Definitely not as stable as the aluminum wheels.

  21. #21
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    My experience supports a 0.4-0.5 mph gain riding solo with better aero wheels over the old high-spoke count box rim wheels. A few summers ago I was training for an ironman. I charted thousands of solo miles that summer on endless (boring!) laps of the the same long (10+mile) uninterrupted stretch of rural roads in TT pos on my Cdale Slice. Each ride concentrated on same aerobic HR & moderate RPE pacing for my training plan (To avoid distraction I didn't even have speed on my Garmin screens during most rides). Same helmet, training kit, and Rubino Pro Slick tires @ 105psi (as on all my wheels). In my training log data, HED Jet 6's (60mm rim) were overall 0.35-0.5mph faster than Shimano WH500's (27mm rim). I noticed minimal speed difference between wheels on direct head or tail wind days, but the HEDs were significantly faster in quartering winds. I'll bet under certain very specific conditions the speed difference might reach 1mph (perhaps more), but certainly not averaged over a whole season of riding.

    FWIW- I've never noticed that much real-world speed difference between brands of higher-end 'racing' road tires (assuming same size/pressures). I think most makes do a good job with those tires these days. OTOH- race tires are clearly quicker than 'durability' and entry-level tires. Among Vittoria's clinchers, (to avoid brand arguments), no doubt Corsas are notably faster rolling than Zaffiros.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldteen View Post
    FWIW- I've never noticed that much real-world speed difference between brands of higher-end 'racing' road tires (assuming same size/pressures). I think most makes do a good job with those tires these days. OTOH- race tires are clearly quicker than 'durability' and entry-level tires. Among Vittoria's clinchers, (to avoid brand arguments), no doubt Corsas are notably faster rolling than Zaffiros.
    Well, OK, you're comparing extremes here - top of the line Corsas and entry level Zaffiros. My guess is if you run a pair of Rubinos (middle ground), they will perform more like the Corsas than the Zaffiros. FWIW, I've found that going up the food chain is a law of diminishing returns. You get the best return going from entry level to the next level up.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



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