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Thread: I'm stuck, Help

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    Doesn't seem to be, I side by sided it with another and all looked good. It's not just in that spot, if the wheel is viewed while spun starting at the valve hole that same pattern would be seen all the way around the rim, till arriving back at the valve hole. 2 long, 2 short, 2 long, 2 short all the way around.

    I'm gonna mark the spokes that appear long, measure and compare lengths and relace the wheel with all the marked spokes on the same side, or sumsuch, and hope that the 3rd time is the charm.
    Good luck.

    It was "third time lucky" for me when I was dishing a rear wheel I built. My next step if the third attempt didn't work was to take bolt cutters and rapidly dissemble the wheel by cutting the spokes in half.


  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPlKE View Post
    Good luck.

    It was "third time lucky" for me when I was dishing a rear wheel I built. My next step if the third attempt didn't work was to take bolt cutters and rapidly dissemble the wheel by cutting the spokes in half.

    Believe me, I've had to walk away from the wheel more than once because that is exactly what I was thinking.
    Too old to ride plastic

  3. #28
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    I marked all the long appearing spokes, unlaced the wheel and measured the spokes. All the same length.

    Re laced the wheel with Brandt's book in front of me. Last time used Musson's. Brandt addressed the off set drilling of the rim, which had me start lacing to the right as opposed to the left as Musson who had me starting left.
    This is the only thing that I did differently. I need to look again but I don't remember Musson addressing the off set drilling. Not OC but left\right alternating off set drilling.

    Anyways everything is as it should be and after lunch I'll finish the build. With any luck I won't find something else to screw up.

    I don't know what I did else I could've wrong. Is there enough off set in the drilling to bind up the nipples, being "cross threaded", as it were.

    Thanks all, for the help and suggestions.
    Too old to ride plastic

  4. #29
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    Now I feel so let down that the problem was not something more insidious.

  5. #30
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    Glad you got it under control before you had to reach for the bolt cutters and the hard liquor!

    I haven't built a wheel in decades, but Brandt's book still has a place of honor on my bookshelf. Based on your experience, I'm moving Jobst Brandt's "The Bicycle Wheel" to my top shelf.

    And how freakin cool is a first name like Jobst? Pretty fricken cool.

    I just read that Jobst passed on to that "Big LBS in the Sky" in 2015. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobst_Brandt RIP Jobst.


    Meanwhile, this Musson person sounds like some kind of rascal. Musson is now number one on my bicycle wheel building experts sht lst.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPlKE View Post
    Glad you got it under control before you had to reach for the bolt cutters and the hard liquor!

    I haven't built a wheel in decades, but Brandt's book still has a place of honor on my bookshelf. Based on your experience, I'm moving Jobst Brandt's "The Bicycle Wheel" to my top shelf.

    And how freakin cool is a first name like Jobst? Pretty fricken cool.

    I just read that Jobst passed on to that "Big LBS in the Sky" in 2015. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobst_Brandt RIP Jobst.


    Meanwhile, this Musson person sounds like some kind of rascal. Musson is now number one on my bicycle wheel building experts sht lst.
    And I had the book for decades before attempting a wheel.

    Yeah, I remember reading that he had died. I also remember reading that he rode yellow bikes because a crack would stand out more obviously against the yellow. Regular people don't think like that, gotta like the guy.

    And while Musson may be some kinda rascal, I may have just missed the part where he warned me about orientating the spokes properly into the rim. I'm glad that I finally got it right, but I'm surprised that things got so out of whack so early in the build. The off set is really miniscule.
    Too old to ride plastic

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    And I had the book for decades before attempting a wheel.

    Yeah, I remember reading that he had died. I also remember reading that he rode yellow bikes because a crack would stand out more obviously against the yellow. Regular people don't think like that, gotta like the guy.

    And while Musson may be some kinda rascal, I may have just missed the part where he warned me about orientating the spokes properly into the rim. I'm glad that I finally got it right, but I'm surprised that things got so out of whack so early in the build. The off set is really miniscule.
    I tell you what. Jobst never sanded off a few layers of carbon fiber to make way for a chainring. Fact.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPlKE View Post
    I tell you what. Jobst never sanded off a few layers of carbon fiber to make way for a chainring. Fact.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SPlKE again.
    Too old to ride plastic

  9. #34
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post


    I marked all the long appearing spokes, unlaced the wheel and measured the spokes. All the same length.

    Re laced the wheel with Brandt's book in front of me. Last time used Musson's. Brandt addressed the off set drilling of the rim, which had me start lacing to the right as opposed to the left as Musson who had me starting left.
    This is the only thing that I did differently. I need to look again but I don't remember Musson addressing the off set drilling. Not OC but left\right alternating off set drilling.

    Anyways everything is as it should be and after lunch I'll finish the build. With any luck I won't find something else to screw up.

    I don't know what I did else I could've wrong. Is there enough off set in the drilling to bind up the nipples, being "cross threaded", as it were.

    Thanks all, for the help and suggestions.
    Glad you got it figured out.
    I work for some bike racers
    I've got some bikes, some guns,
    and a bunch of skateboards

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    Here's a pile of pics. The spokes are out of tension and everything is loose. I don't think the picture of the full wheel is clear enough to be of any help.

    Holy crapoly! This is extreme! I did have a build once where every other spoke was slacker than the other, but not to a point where I couldn't finish the wheel. I removed all spokes, re-measured and re-built, but the discrepancies were still there. Frustrating, but as I said, I was still able to finish the wheel and haven't had any spokes pop yet.

    What were your components - rims, hubs, spokes, nipples?
    "If someone needs 200 rolls of toilet paper for a 14-day quarantine, they probably should have made a doctor's appointment way before the COVID-19 outbreak." -- Unknown

    "With
    bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."
    -- DCGriz, RBR.




  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    I marked all the long appearing spokes, unlaced the wheel and measured the spokes. All the same length.

    Re laced the wheel with Brandt's book in front of me. Last time used Musson's. Brandt addressed the off set drilling of the rim, which had me start lacing to the right as opposed to the left as Musson who had me starting left.
    This is the only thing that I did differently. I need to look again but I don't remember Musson addressing the off set drilling. Not OC but left\right alternating off set drilling.

    Anyways everything is as it should be and after lunch I'll finish the build. With any luck I won't find something else to screw up.

    I don't know what I did else I could've wrong. Is there enough off set in the drilling to bind up the nipples, being "cross threaded", as it were.

    Thanks all, for the help and suggestions.
    Glad you got it sorted out! OK, so I responded before I got to the bottom of the thread.

    Spike, I wouldn't be so quick to condemn Musson. If there is an offset, it should be pointed out on the rim as to which side is which. I would be more inclined to vilify the maker of the rim.
    "If someone needs 200 rolls of toilet paper for a 14-day quarantine, they probably should have made a doctor's appointment way before the COVID-19 outbreak." -- Unknown

    "With
    bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."
    -- DCGriz, RBR.




  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Holy crapoly! This is extreme! I did have a build once where every other spoke was slacker than the other, but not to a point where I couldn't finish the wheel. I removed all spokes, re-measured and re-built, but the discrepancies were still there. Frustrating, but as I said, I was still able to finish the wheel and haven't had any spokes pop yet.

    What were your components - rims, hubs, spokes, nipples?
    Pacenti Brevet, Campagnolo, Sapim Race.

    The only difference in the wheel coming together or not, that I could discern, was my lacing of the wheel reverse to the drilling of the rim. It seems I misread the left\right drilling of the rim. Don't know if this was the only problem or something else that I missed, but I didn't see anything else under pretty close inspection.
    Too old to ride plastic

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Glad you got it sorted out! OK, so I responded before I got to the bottom of the thread.

    Spike, I wouldn't be so quick to condemn Musson. If there is an offset, it should be pointed out on the rim as to which side is which. I would be more inclined to vilify the maker of the rim.
    Or the competence of the wheel builder.

    But Brandt was very clear on this point, and while I haven't rechecked yet, if Musson addressed this, it wasn't as clear as Brandt.
    Too old to ride plastic

  14. #39
    pmf
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    Every bike pervert needs to own a copy of Jobst Brandt's book and build a set of wheels once in his or her lifetime. After that, just buying sets of wheels will usually be a lot more attractive.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    After that, just buying sets of wheels will usually be a lot more attractive.
    I don't know if I qualify as bike pervert but just the savings from DIY-ing the wheels which can afford me 2 sets of wheels for the price of 1 set of pre-made wheels is attractive enough to keep me DIY-ing.

  16. #41
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    IIRC, Brandt's book said that building a wheel is rewarding.

    I agree. It's so rewarding, I continue to feel rewarded by the wheels I built 30 years ago. I'm not kidding.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    And I had the book for decades before attempting a wheel.

    Yeah, I remember reading that he had died. I also remember reading that he rode yellow bikes because a crack would stand out more obviously against the yellow. Regular people don't think like that, gotta like the guy.

    And while Musson may be some kinda rascal, I may have just missed the part where he warned me about orientating the spokes properly into the rim. I'm glad that I finally got it right, but I'm surprised that things got so out of whack so early in the build. The off set is really miniscule.
    Yep, I missed that part. I went back and sure enough there it was. Pretty easy to see too. My mistake, 100%.
    Too old to ride plastic

  18. #43
    pmf
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvber View Post
    I don't know if I qualify as bike pervert but just the savings from DIY-ing the wheels which can afford me 2 sets of wheels for the price of 1 set of pre-made wheels is attractive enough to keep me DIY-ing.
    Really? This was years ago, but I remember after I built my first set of wheels (Ultegra hubs, DT 14/15 double butted spokes and Mavic Open Pro rims) that it was the same cost, or maybe even cheaper, to buy those wheels built up from Colorado Cyclist.

    It was kind of fun, but I think the guys I buy my custom wheel sets from can do a lot better job than I can.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    Really? This was years ago, but I remember after I built my first set of wheels (Ultegra hubs, DT 14/15 double butted spokes and Mavic Open Pro rims) that it was the same cost, or maybe even cheaper, to buy those wheels built up from Colorado Cyclist.
    Yup. But I like the wheels I build better than those I can buy, and then I have the spare parts in case a spoke breaks. It takes me a little over an hour to build a wheel so I don't see it as a big issue.

  20. #45
    pmf
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    Yup. But I like the wheels I build better than those I can buy, and then I have the spare parts in case a spoke breaks. It takes me a little over an hour to build a wheel so I don't see it as a big issue.
    It is kind of fun and a lot easier than many would think. Most of the wheels I own are custom made out of readily available (and replaceable) parts. But I know the guys at psimet, or Pete's Wheels, do a better job than I could. I never even have to true a wheel anymore. Seems like decades ago, that was a common task. Are rims better? Spoke tension is certainly a lot higher. Better hubs? Its not like I weigh less than I did back then.

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