Most stable/predictable aero wheels? - Page 2
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 38 of 38
  1. #26
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: upstateSC-rider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,727
    If you've had a death wobble experience I would expect you to be holding the handlebars and your position more forcefully than someone that enjoys the descents and is very fluid at speed. In turn, by holding the handlebars or position rigidly, this may create the right set of circumstances for a repeat death wobble experience.

    Very weird, especially since 40 or 41mph isn't exactly warp speed, are you able to try a nice set of shallow carbon or aluminum wheels to try and duplicate the experience? I'd be interested in hearing your experiences with that or experimenting with tire psi?

    Going by your avatar I expect you to be comfortable at speed, I know hitting berms and setting up for a double or triple jump tends to give you a good speed perspective.

    Not a big fan of hambini...Definitely entertaining but rubs me the wrong way.
    In reference to the Assault on Mt Mitchell...
    Quote Originally Posted by merckx56
    The easier solution is to find a biker bar in Spartanburg the night before, go in and pick a fight. The ass-whipping you'll get will be far less painful than the one Mitchell will give you the next day!

  2. #27
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    3,356
    Quote Originally Posted by upstateSC-rider View Post
    Very weird, especially since 40 or 41mph isn't exactly warp speed, are you able to try a nice set of shallow carbon or aluminum wheels to try and duplicate the experience?
    I had an early Giant TCR that would repeatedly start to shimmy at around 28 mph and that was with shallow aluminum rims. If anything, it started sooner with hands off the bars.

  3. #28
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,266
    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    That is not a conflict of interest. No more than Consumer Reports has a conflict of interest by selling magazines.

    Feel free to present any literature (not from a wheel manufacturer) which dispels any of his results or opinions.
    Now hold on there... you're questioning someone who has done tunnel testing as unreliable all the while asking us to take you at your word because.. anecdote and what "makes sense" to you (internal vs. external spoke nipples)

    Regarding Hambini and his exchanges, it doesn't take long for him to descend to ad hominem when presented with contradicting information on top of which even before that, he's a world-class @ss who mainly likes to hear himself talk and must find himself hilarious.

    So I guess your point is that every major wheel manufacturer is committing massive fraud and basically making up data and some random dude in the UK is the source of actual truth. FFS Specialized even has videos on-line of their wind tunnel testing. I guess all that was 'shopped?
    Well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion man. - The Dude

  4. #29
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,266
    Quote Originally Posted by multirider View Post
    The catalyst for my original post is that I dislike high speed, but really enjoy riding/racing with a few people/groups that hit 40-50mph a few times each ride. I live/ride/race in the foothills of the Rocky Mountains in the Denver/Boulder area and there are almost always winds and crosswinds of some magnitude. I seem to be more sensitive than most to crosswinds because it is not unusual for me to mention it after a ride and others didn't really notice it.

    I recently experienced a "death wobble" at 40+ mph that has me pretty rattled. I don't know for certain that it was caused by a crosswind or by the road surface or a combination, but I thought for certain I was going down.

    Ever since then, I've been more hyper-aware of crosswinds than ever before. And they happen on my Roval CLX50s more than my ENVE 5.6s. So I'm wondering if the CLX50s are more susceptible to crosswind effects. It seems like, anecdotally, Zipps are worse than the mythical "average" and ENVEs are better. I feel like my ENVE 5.6s are more stable than the Roval CLS50s all the time, especially in crosswinds, but of course I can't do a double-blind test. I always know which wheels I'm on, so it may be a placebo effect.

    I've recently heard from two different people who swear that Reynolds Aero with DET are the very best in crosswinds. But when I look at that pointy profile, it's tough to believe. And online reviews differ -- a few say they are worse, a few say they are better.

    I am considering selling the CLX50s if I could replace them with something that would be better in crosswinds. Is there a consensus on a wheelset brand/model that offers some aero advantage with a minimum of crosswind instability? Or any kind of instability?

    I debated about whether to mention this, but a friend of mine is very similar physically (6', 170 pounds) and rides CLX50s on his Specialized Venge, consistently hits higher speeds than me by a few mph, and loves his bike/ride. I'm on a Parlee RZ7 wit either CLX50s or ENVE 5.6s and get nervous about crosswinds at 40mph. I frequently find myself feathering the brakes and when I glance down, it is almost always at 40mph or 41mph. So it may just be me.

    Bottom line: I don't want to spend a bunch of time/energy/money swapping wheels if it won't improve my ride enjoyment.

    I just copied my post into the copy-paste buffer just in case. Here goes my "Submit Reply" attempt!
    There's a whole bunch of reasons to get rid of your Roval wheels over and above crosswind stability. I'm about your size and weight and happily ride Zipp 303s, ENVE 3.4s and Hunt 36s. I was actually really shocked recently I was riding in some horrifically strong, swirling winds and the Hunt 36s were ROCK. SOLID. I've *never* ridden deep-ish wheels that were that stable in winds like that. Even my 202s aren't that stable. So there's an anecdote for you Mr. aclinjury, despite the fact that Hambini says Hunts are shyte.
    Well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion man. - The Dude

  5. #30
    tlg
    tlg is offline
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: tlg's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    17,172
    Quote Originally Posted by OldChipper View Post
    Now hold on there... you're questioning someone who has done tunnel testing as unreliable all the while asking us to take you at your word because.. anecdote and what "makes sense" to you (internal vs. external spoke nipples)
    Now you hold on there. I never said anything about spoke nipples. You have me confused with someone else.

    Regarding Hambini and his exchanges, it doesn't take long for him to descend to ad hominem when presented with contradicting information on top of which even before that, he's a world-class @ss who mainly likes to hear himself talk and must find himself hilarious.
    No argument... he is an ass.
    But I haven't seen him presented with contradicting information. If you have examples, feel free to share.

    So I guess your point is that every major wheel manufacturer is committing massive fraud and basically making up data and some random dude in the UK is the source of actual truth.
    Again... You have me confused with someone else. I never said or implied that.

    Has Hambini has ever said or implied that every major wheel manufacturer is committing massive fraud and basically making up data? I don't think so. Do you have proof of this?


    FFS Specialized even has videos on-line of their wind tunnel testing. I guess all that was 'shopped?
    Has Hambini ever aero tested Specialized wheels? Has he ever commented on Specialized aerodynamic testing?
    Can you share this info?
    Custom Di2 & Garmin/GoPro mounts 2013 SuperSix EVO Hi-MOD Team * 2004 Klein Aura V

  6. #31
    tlg
    tlg is offline
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: tlg's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    17,172
    Quote Originally Posted by OldChipper View Post
    I was actually really shocked recently I was riding in some horrifically strong, swirling winds and the Hunt 36s were ROCK. SOLID.

    So there's an anecdote for you Mr. aclinjury, despite the fact that Hambini says Hunts are shyte.
    Ohhh. You have owners bias.

    You do realize Hunt 36's aren't aero wheels. According to Hunt they are "a relatively shallow 36mm deep blunt-nosed profile built as all-rounders". So sure.... they're going to be fine in winds.

    Did Hambini say all Hunt's were shyte? Do you have proof of this?
    Because what he was actually talking about is the poor performance of Hunt 50's. They performed almost identical to the 36's. Yea... that's shyte!
    Now the 36's (which you have) performed exactly as you'd expect a 36mm wheel to perform.

    Custom Di2 & Garmin/GoPro mounts 2013 SuperSix EVO Hi-MOD Team * 2004 Klein Aura V

  7. #32
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    6,537
    how strong a crosswind are we talking about here? 10 mph? 20 mph? Big difference from 10 to 20 mph. If over 20 mph, don't bother with aero wheels, stick to shallow aluminum wheels.

  8. #33
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: stevesbike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    5,612
    For riding in the Rockies, I'd avoid anything deeper than a 35 if I were to buy just one set of wheels. Sounds like you want to avoid experiencing a strong gust while going downhill at high speed on a 50-60 deep wheel. I ride regularly on 50s in the Los Angeles mountains but will put on a 40 front in windy conditions and even it can be unpredictable on a gusty day during descents.

  9. #34
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    9,514
    Quote Originally Posted by multirider View Post
    Are there any studies that compare specific models of wheels for crosswind stability for wheels that are 40+mm deep? Or perhaps brands? For example, Boyd vs ENVE vs Hunt vs Mavic vs November vs Reynolds vs Roval vs Zipp? If no studies, is there relatively consistent anecdotal evidence that one brand is more stable in crosswinds than the others?

    Deep wheels are for aerodynamics. Great if they are good in crosswinds but kind of pointless to get deep wheels without looking at how they are for aerodynamics. What's the point in spending ton of money on deep wheels that are good in crosswinds if they suck at their primary purpose. (not to imply that good aero and crosswinds are mutually exclusive but being good in winds doesn't necessarily tell you anything about aero).


    ......unless you only want deep wheels for looks.

  10. #35
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    3,356
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Deep wheels are for aerodynamics. Great if they are good in crosswinds but kind of pointless to get deep wheels without looking at how they are for aerodynamics. What's the point in spending ton of money on deep wheels that are good in crosswinds if they suck at their primary purpose. (not to imply that good aero and crosswinds are mutually exclusive but being good in winds doesn't necessarily tell you anything about aero).
    Fair enough, but you have to consider aero performance in context. The primary purpose is to make the rider faster. If a wheel is so unstable that it forces the rider into a less aero position, then the whole package might be slower than a wheel which is itself less aero, but lets the rider stay in a better position. It makes sense to try to understand the stability characteristics of wheels in addition to their aero performance when considering which wheels to buy to see if one set is faster overall given the rider's power (which affects yaw angle) and wind conditions.

    Similarly, for those of us who buy and service our own equipment it makes sense to consider durability, serviceability, price, etc. when deciding what to buy. It might make sense to pay for something which might not be the absolute best in terms of one performance metric to get better performance in others.

  11. #36
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    9,514
    Quote Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
    Fair enough, but you have to consider aero performance in context. The primary purpose is to make the rider faster. If a wheel is so unstable that it forces the rider into a less aero position, then the whole package might be slower than a wheel which is itself less aero, but lets the rider stay in a better position. It makes sense to try to understand the stability characteristics of wheels in addition to their aero performance when considering which wheels to buy to see if one set is faster overall given the rider's power (which affects yaw angle) and wind conditions.

    Similarly, for those of us who buy and service our own equipment it makes sense to consider durability, serviceability, price, etc. when deciding what to buy. It might make sense to pay for something which might not be the absolute best in terms of one performance metric to get better performance in others.
    yeah good point. Hanging on for dear life in crosswinds isn't going to make anyone faster regardless.

    I think the real answer here is two sets of wheels. Once for time trial type riding that are no-holds-bared aero and an alloy set for general riding.

  12. #37
    dcb
    dcb is offline
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    816
    Quote Originally Posted by stevesbike View Post
    For riding in the Rockies, I'd avoid anything deeper than a 35 if I were to buy just one set of wheels. Sounds like you want to avoid experiencing a strong gust while going downhill at high speed on a 50-60 deep wheel. I ride regularly on 50s in the Los Angeles mountains but will put on a 40 front in windy conditions and even it can be unpredictable on a gusty day during descents.
    I found this to be true as well. I used to live in the mountain west and had a Giant Propel with 55mm carbon wheels for a while. High speed descents, which were a pretty much every day event, and cross winds weren't fun. I'm not sure it was just the wheels that caused that bike to wobble like no other bike I've had but it didn't last long in my stable.

  13. #38
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: multirider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    363
    Iím a bit competitive, raced motorcycles for a couple decades, switched to bikes, hate to get dropped, my weakness is high speed on skinny little tires and a comparatively fragile, unstable, 2 wheeled vehicle. Thus, my interest in aerodynamics ó keep up, catch up if dangling.

    Iím trying to ride with a more relaxed approach, Iíve hit 42-43mph a few times recently, did not enjoy it but was almost comfortable. Hard to know why given that every ride has different weather conditions, different lines and possible sources of wobble, etc.

    The 5.6s are 54/63mm deep. Perhaps I need a more shallow front? And more practice at being relaxed.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Similar Threads

  1. Stable genius is stable...
    By xxl in forum Politics Only
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-06-2020, 07:37 AM
  2. How Predictable
    By troutmd in forum Politics Only
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 09-17-2019, 04:32 PM
  3. Predictable Debate
    By JasonLopez in forum Politics Only
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-03-2012, 06:59 PM
  4. Replies: 16
    Last Post: 08-03-2012, 05:52 AM
  5. I guess this was predictable
    By toomanybikes in forum Politics Only
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-14-2006, 03:03 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT ROADBIKEREVIEW

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.