My Pacenti experience - Page 2
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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by prowheelbuilder.com View Post
    At this point I am officially calling BS to Pacenti's argument. That being said, unless they retract there claim no one should build with the CX Ray spokes on there rims. Anyone that does, rides at there own peril as Pacenty clearly is stating that they take no liability for any harm that befalls someone that is harmed due to there rims failure while using the CX Ray spokes. What a shame!
    I think it's best that everyone forgoes P-word rims rather than CX-Ray spokes. IMO P-word rims will soon go the way of the do-do bird and we'll all keep on merrily using CX-Rays on our rims of choice. And with zero problems.
    .

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdhbrad View Post
    Mike: Talk to Brandon about the AForce Al33 Rims. He suggested I try them when I wanted to build new wheels about a year ago. WI T11s and Cxray Spokes. Couldn’t be happier with the results.
    Thanks Brad. I was going to contact Brandon to see what he recommends. In the meantime, I'll check those rims out and read up on them.
    .

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by November Dave View Post
    Hi Mike T!
    Hi ya ND!! Yep I'm still around even though you and I haven't been in touch for a while. BTW I'm following the production of the new Hugo Boss boat. Wouldn't we both like to check that boat out in person?
    .

  4. #29
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    This thread is like a family reunion with Mike T.
    Are u going to announce another retirement? Or are u officially retired after this thread?

    RC

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by prowheelbuilder.com View Post
    lower tensile strength i.e. greater elasticity ...

    Sapim Leader 1180nm tensile strength 2.0 gauge (greatest elasticity)
    Sapim Race 1300nm tensile strength 2.0 x 1.8 x 2.0 gauge
    Sapim D Lite 1370nm tensile strength 2.0 x 1.65 x 2.0 gauge
    Sapim CX Sprint 1430nm tensile strength 2.0 x 2.25-1.25 x 2.0 gauge
    Sapim Laser 1500nm tensile strength 2.0 x 1.5 x 2.0 gauge
    Sapim CX Ray 1600nm tensile strength 2.0 x 0.9-2.2 x 2.0 gauge (least elasticity)
    Richard, this is mistaken. Less tensile strength does not mean more elasticity. Tensile strength measures breaking point and elasticity measures how much something stretches and still be able to snap back to original. For example, a suspension spring is both very elastic and also has a very high tensile strength.

    The narrow area of a CX-Ray does in fact make it stretch more than a thicker spoke. So a CX-Ray is more likely to rub the rim on the brake pads than a thicker spoke. Sapim themselves advertise the flexibility of CX-Ray and the relative stiffness of CX-Sprint. https://www.sapim.be/spokes/aero/cx-sprint

    https://www.sapim.be/spokes/aero/cx-ray

    Last edited by MudSnow; 08-14-2019 at 07:26 PM.

  6. #31
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    Well I got my wheels back from my wheelbuilder (I just did not have the interest in building them myself, too many other issues including unemployment on my mind at the moment).
    He agrees with everyone else here that this failure had nothing to do at all with the spokes (and in fact kept the CX-Rays , which he said were still in perfect condition).
    Maybe I will get a chance to ride them tomorrow and experience the ride improvement that these D-lite spokes will supposedly provide for myself.
    The Pacenti stickers are also a PITA to remove.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MudSnow View Post
    The main reason I have heard is that sales have been too slow lately, and not just for BHS. Which is a shame because it is one of the best alloy rims out there. I consider it in second place behind HED, with HED mainly winning on style. I prefer the asymmetrical design because spoke tension really is better.
    I strongly urge you to look into Boyd and Astral for alloy rims. Both have been serving me well of late. Hed and Easton are still top choices as well. Those 4 brands all have rims that have been around long enough to have a clear track record and build up extremely straight and true with even tension.

    For those that prefer, Astral rims are the only ones mentioned above that are made here in the USA.

  8. #33
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    I'm a builder, too...I have built a fair number of Pacenti rims. Mostly Forza disc, some Brevets, and some of the other disc rims a few years back.

    I'm no engineer, and don't have as many wheels under my belt as others, but this CX Ray thing does sound like total rubbish. Common sense? I can't recall if I've built any Forza's with CX Ray, but may very well have, and also likely others than the prescribed D Light.

    Don't want to be a thread hi-jacker, but found my way here as a result of having my own warranty issues with Forza rim brake rims. What I am finding out after already replacing a rim once, and now offered a third, is that these rims are not being made to uniform width - resulting in untruable wheels which cause brake pulsing because of their variable width.

    The greatest difference seems to be in the first rim, and that difference is .43mm.

    This you can see is occurring about 6 spoke holes distance apart. Thought some here would find this interesting.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by oleritter; 08-15-2019 at 08:10 AM.

  9. #34
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    Rode the new rear wheel for the first time last night.
    I don't feel any difference in ride quality.
    But at least there is no cracking around the spoke holes I guess?

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleritter View Post
    I'm a builder, too...I have built a fair number of Pacenti rims. Mostly Forza disc, some Brevets, and some of the other disc rims a few years back.

    I'm no engineer, and don't have as many wheels under my belt as others, but this CX Ray thing does sound like total rubbish. Common sense? I can't recall if I've built any Forza's with CX Ray, but may very well have, and also likely others than the prescribed D Light.

    Don't want to be a thread hi-jacker, but found my way here as a result of having my own warranty issues with Forza rim brake rims. What I am finding out after already replacing a rim once, and now offered a third, is that these rims are not being made to uniform width - resulting in untruable wheels which cause brake pulsing because of their variable width.

    The greatest difference seems to be in the first rim, and that difference is .43mm.

    This you can see is occurring about 6 spoke holes distance apart. Thought some here would find this interesting.
    Interesting...and definitely not confidence inspiring.
    I work for some bike racers
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  11. #36
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    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

    OK, I'm late to the party here, but really, it should be perfectly obvious to any reasonable person at this point that Pacenti cannot be trusted. After all the reports on the SL23, with so many other great quality rims out there, why would anybody jump in the water again? And what does Pacenti do? They try and blame CX-Ray spokes when there have never been reports of failures on any other rims due to using these?? I agree - total BS.

    That being said, a ridiculously low spoke count paired with a heavy rider WILL challenge even the most robust rim on the market. Looking carefully at the pic of the OP's rear wheel, it looks like a 28 spoke, so it's a reasonable spoke count. We don't know the OP's weight though.

    Hi Mike!
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    We don't know the OP's weight though.
    85kg.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTR View Post
    85kg.
    So definitely not a clyde and not at a weight that would be stressful on wheels.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    So definitely not a clyde and not at a weight that would be stressful on wheels.
    My question is, how many lbs. or kilos. does a clyde make?

    85kilo\187lbs is not a small man. I'm 6'1" and about 185lbs and consider myself a "large" cyclist.
    Too old to ride plastic

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    My question is, how many lbs. or kilos. does a clyde make?

    85kilo\187lbs is not a small man. I'm 6'1" and about 185lbs and consider myself a "large" cyclist.
    You are tall, but not what I would consider "large" except maybe within the range of elite racer cyclists who look like all arms and legs. Your weight is at the high end of normal for your height. At 5'10" and 170lbs, I fall into the same 24-25BMI range as you do.

    I generally consider "clyde" to be 250lbs or more and someone who is 200 to 250lbs to be a "baby clyde".
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  16. #41
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    'Clydesdale' has been defined by 200 lbs + forever. Probably over 25 years.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    You are tall, but not what I would consider "large" except maybe within the range of elite racer cyclists who look like all arms and legs. Your weight is at the high end of normal for your height. At 5'10" and 170lbs, I fall into the same 24-25BMI range as you do.

    I generally consider "clyde" to be 250lbs or more and someone who is 200 to 250lbs to be a "baby clyde".
    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    'Clydesdale' has been defined by 200 lbs + forever. Probably over 25 years.
    Can I just call 200lb and over or 250lb and over fat cyclists? Or will that be frowned upon?
    Too old to ride plastic

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    'Clydesdale' has been defined by 200 lbs + forever. Probably over 25 years.
    Well then with the increasing girth of the American population, that's a lot of cyclists!
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    So definitely not a clyde and not at a weight that would be stressful on wheels.
    Definitely not, and my mechanic always comments on how "gentle" I am on my gear.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    My question is, how many lbs. or kilos. does a clyde make?

    85kilo\187lbs is not a small man. I'm 6'1" and about 185lbs and consider myself a "large" cyclist.
    I am 6'2" tall, and about your weight.
    Would post a pic, but the forum seems to have stopped hosting pics?

  21. #46
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    For the sake of more spoke knowledge, are these tensile strength results assuming they are measured by testing the center area of the spoke only?

    Do you know which alloy each of these spokes are made of or which ones share the same material?

    Do you know the strain of each of these spokes?

    Do you know the tensile strength of the Sapim Strong spoke, which you mention in an earlier post has the same alloy as the CX-Ray?

    Thanks.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTR View Post
    I am 6'2" tall, and about your weight.
    Would post a pic, but the forum seems to have stopped hosting pics?
    Recently, I can still post pics, but they will only show as a file which you have to click on.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    Can I just call 200lb and over or 250lb and over fat cyclists? Or will that be frowned upon?
    That range would include a lot of very fit track cyclists.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bremerradkurier View Post
    That range would include a lot of very fit track cyclists.
    Point taken.
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  25. #50
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    So what I don't understand is, If Pacenti wants to use certain spokes on their rims, Shouldn't they have posted that information somewhere on their web page ?

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