New Pacenti Forza Road Rim

[November Dave]

I'm glad you have a backup plan as I wouldn't put a lot of stock in them meeting their target release date of this month (already slipped from last month??). Also I'd speculate that they will prioritize their first rim stock to go to building their proprietary complete wheelsets which undoubtedly bring in more gold Dabloons to the company coffers than rim sales alone would.

With that said, I hope they have all the bugs worked out in a couple of years when I'll be in the market for a new carbon steed

I don't speak Kickstarter so I don't know what their originally proposed ship date was for that, so I don't know how they are against that. But there is only about a two week slip for rim shipments for distribution. An 11/15 ship date from the factory was confirmed yesterday. For a new product, this is outstanding schedule adherence. The delivery resolution that manufacturers (manufacturer meaning aluminum production - extruding/rolling/drilling/surface treating/QC, which may be more than one entity - instead of brand) are willing/able to give is poor, compounded by several factors, one of which is that you can easily wait a week or two for a boat for your shipment to sail on once the shipment is ready. Any further variance on time frame seems to be left up to vagaries of shipping company schedules and customs offices.

Your speculation as to their first rim stock going to proprietary complete wheel sets is wrong. Aluminum rim production is much different than what I'd guess you are imagining. Once the process gets going, it's more of a "holy crap what do we do with all of these rims" question. One tooling set spits out A LOT of production, in contrast to carbon rim production where if you are whipping one set of tooling like a rented mule you might get 3 or 4 rims per day. And, quite simply, without being inappropriately supportive of a company that has a scant track record, everything we've seen and heard out of them adds up. They're being as boring and Dutch about the thing as the could possibly be, and I mean that as high praise.

[cooskull]

I sit corrected Dave! Thanks for shedding some light into their inner workings.

I hope these rims do work out- choice is always a good thing and those rims look very promising for pushing aero and braking performance envelope for alloy. Only time will tell. Hope those wind tunnel tests results will be released soon too... but enough of this Pacenti Forza thread hijack.

[bigbill]

I had a SL23 wheelset on Record hubs in 32 hole. About a year in, the rear cracked in two spots at DS spoke holes. The builder, RT Wheelcraft rebuilt the rear with an Easton R90 SL which is a little wider and taller than a SL23. It's a nice rim. I still have the front wheel with the SL23 and it's still dead on true. The builder checked the tension a few months ago and it's almost identical to when built.

[Z'mer]

Geez, now you guys have me worried about my Pacenti SL23 V2 rims. Anyone know which rims have similar ERD in case it needs to be replaced? Is the Forza close enough to re-use fairly new spokes?

[Mike T.]

.....ERD..... Is the Forza close enough to re-use fairly new spokes?

I'll bet the Forza will have a thicker nipple bed so the ERD won't be close.

[ergott]

Profile is different. Need new spokes.

[aruyt]

Oldish thread, but back to the topic in the title...am I missing something or are the Forza asymmetrical rear rims not yet available? On his website and doing a Google search, I find nothing on the rear rims.

[twinkles]

I spoke with Brandon at bikehubstore.com, and he said they'd be available from him after the new year. I've also spoken with folks at DT Swiss, and they said their rr 411 asym will be available at the same time. I'm trying to decide which wheelset to build up, but am glad companies are smart enough to realize that an asym rear is the best option.

[aruyt]

I spoke with Brandon at bikehubstore.com, and he said they'd be available from him after the new year. I've also spoken with folks at DT Swiss, and they said their rr 411 asym will be available at the same time. I'm trying to decide which wheelset to build up, but am glad companies are smart enough to realize that an asym rear is the best option.

I'm unfamiliar with asymmetric rims. Are these meant solely for tubeless setups or do they work equally as well with traditional tubes/clincher tires?

[Jay Strongbow]

I'm unfamiliar with asymmetric rims. Are these meant solely for tubeless setups or do they work equally as well with traditional tubes/clincher tires?

They have nothing to do with what tire/tube set up one uses. I wouldn't do a good job at explaining the reason for them but I'm sure a quick google search would.

[Mike T.]

I'm unfamiliar with asymmetric rims. Are these meant solely for tubeless setups or do they work equally as well with traditional tubes/clincher tires?

They work fine with tubes. There can be no reason why they wouldn't. I'm using one at the moment. Their benefit is that they lower the difference between DS and NDS tensions in rear wheels and disc brake equipped front wheels.

That being said, it's not often that a problem is caused by traditional (non asym rim) rims and the resulting DS to NDS spoke tension differences.

[aruyt]

ok thanks.

[chandne]

I was going to use the 441 for my new build but chose the 440 instead. It is a mm narrower in internal width, and I did not want a super-wide rim. It is a solid rim that built up really well. The road feel is excellent with CX Ray and CX Sprint spokes tied to CK R45 hubs.

I need to rebuild my other bike's wheelset that currently has DT 240s and SL23s. I was going to use the Forzas but am thinking about the DT 441 now.

[Lombard]

I was going to use the 441 for my new build but chose the 440 instead. It is a mm narrower in internal width, and I did not want a super-wide rim. It is a solid rim that built up really well. The road feel is excellent with CX Ray and CX Sprint spokes tied to CK R45 hubs.

I need to rebuild my other bike's wheelset that currently has DT 240s and SL23s. I was going to use the Forzas but am thinking about the DT 441 now.

Don't you mean the DT 460?

[chandne]

Don't you mean the DT 460?

So sorry, I meant the new RR411. I went with the 440 but the RR411 looked great. Not sure if they are available in all drilling just yet. I just put that CK R45/440 combo on my BMC SLR01. Im sure it is first the bike and then the wheels but the ride is freaking phenomenal!!

[SBH1973]

Just received my first shipment of the Forzas, road and disc. Initial impressions are good - nice finish, nice weld. Heavier than the SL23s by 35-40 grams (460-470 grams) - I'm counting this as a positive. The OC rear is also fairly unique among higher-end, welded-joint alloy rims.

I just sent Dave at November Wheels some 32h OC rears - I'm sure he'll chime in with his thoughts after he builds them up.

I spoke with Brandon at bikehubstore.com, and he said they'd be available from him after the new year. I've also spoken with folks at DT Swiss, and they said their rr 411 asym will be available at the same time. I'm trying to decide which wheelset to build up, but am glad companies are smart enough to realize that an asym rear is the best option.

[Mike T.]

Just received my first shipment of the Forzas, road and disc. Initial impressions are good - nice finish, nice weld. Heavier than the SL23s by 35-40 grams (460-470 grams) - I'm counting this as a positive. The OC rear is also fairly unique among higher-end, welded-joint alloy rims.

I think the day of the sub-450 gram clincher rim is over. I'll bet there's no company with sub-450g rims that hasn't rued the day they entered the race for the bottom.

I just sent Dave at November Wheels some 32h OC rears - I'm sure he'll chime in with his thoughts after he builds them up.

Dave with an opinion on rims? You sure you got the right guy Brandon? Actually, his opinion is the best IMO.

[coachboyd]

I think the day of the sub-450 gram clincher rim is over. I'll bet there's no company with sub-450g rims that hasn't rued the day they entered the race for the bottom.

I absolutely love our sub 450 gram alloy clincher rim (the Altamont Lite). In fact, I am about to go ride it on some dirt roads for a few hours.

I know lots of custom builders who are digging that rim as well.

[November Dave]

I've actually built about 8 or 9 rears already, 24 and 28h versions. From what we've seen thus far, they build nicely. The offset allows a tension balance of +/- 60% which allows you to drop the drive side tension a bit while still having enough non-drive tension.

The profile, apart from the offset, is different. Depth is decreased to 25mm and brake track height has been increased. Tires fit on them fine, although I might be a bad judge of this since I never had any problem with the previous iteration (version 1 was definitely snug).

Weights are noticeably up. Across about a dozen rears, we saw weights between 475 and 490 per rim. Given historical context, a weight increase is a responsible thing with these rims. Durability with SL23, both versions, proved inconsistent.

I have not yet ridden on one. We got prototype versions last summer which I have ridden a bunch (although not with an offset rear), but the production rims we've received have all been allocated to warranty replacements and we've kept a small number aside to be able to more quickly respond to any that should arise going forward.

As to how or where the new rims fit into the general landscape, I don't know. When the abrupt announcement came that SL23s were out of stock and the Forza would replace them at a later date, we'd already started using Easton R90SL in more builds. That switch was a little bit like the Patriots finding out that Drew Bledsoe was injured, but that Tom Brady was perhaps a little more than capable of taking his place (and I'm like 0% a football fan, it's just an obvious analogy to me). Just being objective, there are a whole lot of really nice options now in whatever category these may fit, and that wasn't the case until pretty recently. But Pacenti and the SL23 do deserve a lot of credit for being at the vanguard of the new wave of alloy rims. What that's worth going forward is not for me to say.

As George W Bush said, "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... you can't... we won't get fooled again." The SL23v1 was somewhat consistently problematic. The SL23v2 was inconsistent. There's likely a distinction between between the consumer case for any given product and the business case for that product. The consumer case pends on whether or not any individual user has a good experience with that product or not, simple as that. The business case is more complex than that, involving a whole lot of factors that a truly value added retailer/builder should make close to invisible to the consumer. The amount of work and stress involved as a builder in making those factors invisible to the consumer will largely dictate the builder's enthusiasm for any given product.

[Mike T.]

I absolutely love our sub 450 gram alloy clincher rim (the Altamont Lite). In fact, I am about to go ride it on some dirt roads for a few hours.

I know lots of custom builders who are digging that rim as well.

I've got some sub-450 gram rims that I ride myself, including the Ryde Pulse Sprint (392 and 381 grams) and I've never cracked a spoke hole in decades - and certainly not in sub-450g rims. But I read that a lot of people do suffer cracked rims and the lighter rims get, the more material is lost and the rim bed is a great place to save weight. My Ryde have a 1.8mm nipple bed. Ryde acknowledged a problem as they took them off the market - along with their (average of mine) 436g Pulse Comp.

I'm 175lbs so I'm no featherweight but I don't go ape on my spoke tension so maybe less strain on the nipple holes makes for rim longevity.

[ybgirnadnerb]

I just ordered an OC Forza rim from Brandon at Bikehubstore. They're in stock.

[cobra_kai]

Maybe I missed it but is there a new version of the SL25 coming out as well?

[Enoch562]

Maybe I missed it but is there a new version of the SL25 coming out as well?

Sure is, It has a offset bed also.

[Marc]

Maybe I missed it but is there a new version of the SL25 coming out as well?

Sure is, It has a offset bed also.

Although that is less of a thing since SL25 has been reliable/durable. Have a build of SL25s coming today hopefully. Yay for holiday sales (SL25 rims, Bitex 106 disc hubs, DT butted spokes built-up for $440 shipped).

[Enoch562]

I have yet to see any issues with the SL25. THe only complaint I have ever heard was a one with a loose joint tab. Easily fixed