New Pacenti Forza Road Rim - Page 9
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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nessism View Post
    ...I bought some 9000 series Dura-ace hubs...
    Great hubs!!!
    There I was...

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clipped_in View Post
    Great hubs!!!
    True that! The hubs roll so nice it's a pleasure working with them.

    And speaking of that, just finished building the rear wheel. My hands say I got the drive side tension pretty high; the Park Tool TM-1 tension app suggests I'm at 95-100 kgf (16.5-17 on the tool). Is this a good tension?


    BTW, the 24h rear rim weighed 483 grams and the completed wheel sans rim strip weighs 873 grams. CX-Ray non drive and CX-Sprint drive side.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nessism View Post
    And speaking of that, just finished building the rear wheel. My hands say I got the drive side tension pretty high; the Park Tool TM-1 tension app suggests I'm at 95-100 kgf (16.5-17 on the tool). Is this a good tension?
    If the Park TM-1 is calibrated correctly, your tension seems low. That being said, the Park TM-1 isn't a precision device. Do you have another wheel you can compare it to?
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    If the Park TM-1 is calibrated correctly, your tension seems low. That being said, the Park TM-1 isn't a precision device. Do you have another wheel you can compare it to?
    Yes, I have other wheels, but not using the same type of spokes. I've always used round spokes previously.

    I'm not comfortable tightening more so my plan is to put the wheel into service and see what happens. If it won't hold shape or if tension falls off I'll go to a higher tension.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nessism View Post
    Yes, I have other wheels, but not using the same type of spokes. I've always used round spokes previously.

    I'm not comfortable tightening more so my plan is to put the wheel into service and see what happens. If it won't hold shape or if tension falls off I'll go to a higher tension.
    If you know the gauge of spokes and have the chart that comes with the Park TM-1, you can pretty easily find out how much tension your old wheels have and make a comparison.

    What kind of NDS tension do you have on your new wheel?
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    If you know the gauge of spokes and have the chart that comes with the Park TM-1, you can pretty easily find out how much tension your old wheels have and make a comparison.

    What kind of NDS tension do you have on your new wheel?
    I'm using the Park Wheel Tension App to get the conversion numbers. The NDS is running about 70kgf.

    https://www.parktool.com/wta

  7. #207
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    The Park Tool chart shows CX-Sprint should be 18-19 max. CX-Ray should be 14 max.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nessism View Post
    I'm using the Park Wheel Tension App to get the conversion numbers. The NDS is running about 70kgf.

    https://www.parktool.com/wta
    70kgF on the NDS is plenty.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  9. #209
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    There's no way the offset rim is giving you 70kg/100kg tension for the rear wheel. You have a NDS tension of about 57% of drive tension using Bitex hub and Forza rim. Park tension meters are essentially useless at low tension and shouldn't be relied on for any results under 80-90kgf. There's too much deflection due to high powered spring in tool.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by ergott View Post
    There's no way the offset rim is giving you 70kg/100kg tension for the rear wheel. You have a NDS tension of about 57% of drive tension using Bitex hub and Forza rim. Park tension meters are essentially useless at low tension and shouldn't be relied on for any results under 80-90kgf. There's too much deflection due to high powered spring in tool.
    Interesting. So I've been anal about NDS tension equalizing for nothing?? I release the tension meter very gently.

    So in light of what you say about, it looks like the offset rim gets you only a little improvement in DS vs. NDS tension disparities - 57% vs. 42%.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by ergott View Post
    There's no way the offset rim is giving you 70kg/100kg tension for the rear wheel. You have a NDS tension of about 57% of drive tension using Bitex hub and Forza rim. Park tension meters are essentially useless at low tension and shouldn't be relied on for any results under 80-90kgf. There's too much deflection due to high powered spring in tool.
    Even if the gauge isn't super accurate, it does help balance tension in all the spokes and that's very handy.

    Based on feel the DS spokes are quite tight, and the NDS are what they are relative to that. If anything I think the DS might be too tight, reading 17 on the Park tool. Hopefully that's not the case though.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    .

    So in light of what you say about, it looks like the offset rim gets you only a little improvement in DS vs. NDS tension disparities - 57% vs. 42%.
    There are calcs that give resulting left:right tension % (the old spocal.exe is still out there for download). An offset of 2.6mm does help get NSD over my preferred minimum of 50-55kgf. The FSA tensiometer I use (currently available as Wheel Fanatyk model) uses much lower side load on spoke for better readings at low tensions. Still best to use meter on right side and correct left side evenness with relative pitch by plucking them.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by ergott View Post
    There are calcs that give resulting left:right tension % (the old spocal.exe is still out there for download). An offset of 2.6mm does help get NSD over my preferred minimum of 50-55kgf. The FSA tensiometer I use (currently available as Wheel Fanatyk model) uses much lower side load on spoke for better readings at low tensions. Still best to use meter on right side and correct left side evenness with relative pitch by plucking them.
    Do you mean this one:

    https://www.wheelfanatyk.com/store/d...tension-gauge/

    Do you have a preference for the analog or digital one? I'm a bit of a Luddite, so I kind of like the idea of KISS and no batteries to run down with the analog version.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  14. #214
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    Mine is analog and serves me well.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by ergott View Post
    Mine is analog and serves me well.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    Good to know, thanks!
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  16. #216
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    New Pacenti Forza Road Rim

    Quote Originally Posted by Nessism View Post
    Even if the gauge isn't super accurate, it does help balance tension in all the spokes and that's very handy.
    Why not use the tone of a plucked spoke to determine relative tension?
    Last edited by mfdemicco; 12-18-2018 at 02:04 PM.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfdemicco View Post
    Why lot use the tone of a plucked spoke to determine relative tension?
    Because in my opinion using tone adds more variation than using a gage.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nessism View Post
    Because in my opinion using tone adds more variation than using a gage.
    I would concur here. But that may depend how good an ear one has. The tone method hasn't worked that well for me.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nessism View Post
    Because in my opinion using tone adds more variation than using a gage.
    Well, I think it's impossible to build a true wheel without some tension variation because rims are not uniform, especially at the rim joint, and thus balancing the tension by tone is much faster and perfectly acceptable and books I've read on wheelbuilding agree on this as well, but YMMV.

  20. #220
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    New build with these.... Mounting a pair of used GP4000 23mm. SO difficult!!!

    Anybody else struggle to get some clinchers on these??

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