One more reason to stay away from Mavic??
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  1. #1
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    One more reason to stay away from Mavic??

    "COMPLACENCY IS LETHAL - VOTE in November." - System Shock.

    "With
    bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."
    -- DCGriz, RBR.





  2. #2
    'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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    I'm thinking '2 sides to every story' here. Especially the part where he says "and my front wheel hit another pot hole. He never says his rear wheel hit one...it would be very hard for the rear to impact a pot hole at that speed and not have the front hit the same hole. Did that happen and the first impact damage the front wheel and the second pot hole finish it off? My feelings about Mavic product in general are well known but this may have happened w/ any carbon wheel, hard to say.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    I'm thinking '2 sides to every story' here.
    I thought there were 3.

    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Especially the part where he says "and my front wheel hit another pot hole. He never says his rear wheel hit one...it would be very hard for the rear to impact a pot hole at that speed and not have the front hit the same hole. Did that happen and the first impact damage the front wheel and the second pot hole finish it off? My feelings about Mavic product in general are well known but this may have happened w/ any carbon wheel, hard to say.
    That's what I was thinking, but I just couldn't resist another jab at Mavic. I've never been sold on carbon rims. There are just so many good quality lightweight alloy rims at a fraction of the price, it's just not worth it IMHO.

    And I may have opened up another can of worms here, but just to be ahead of the possible replies, no, just no to Chinese no-name carbon rims.
    "COMPLACENCY IS LETHAL - VOTE in November." - System Shock.

    "With
    bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."
    -- DCGriz, RBR.





  4. #4
    'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I thought there were 3.



    That's what I was thinking, but I just couldn't resist another jab at Mavic. I've never been sold on carbon rims. There are just so many good quality lightweight alloy rims at a fraction of the price, it's just not worth it IMHO.

    And I may have opened up another can of worms here, but just to be ahead of the possible replies, no, just no to Chinese no-name carbon rims.
    3, you're right...I forgot 'the truth'.

    There are some crazy strong carbon rims out there, a lot of the mtbs we sell have them and w/ the exception of the Bontrager rims, especially the Kovee, we don't see many broken ones.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    3, you're right...I forgot 'the truth'.

    There are some crazy strong carbon rims out there, a lot of the mtbs we sell have them and w/ the exception of the Bontrager rims, especially the Kovee, we don't see many broken ones.
    I am assuming the "crazy strong carbon rims" are either very expensive or as heavy as an alloy rim. Light, strong, cheap..........pick two?

    My point was with so many good quality, affordable, light weight alloy rims, is there any real reason to go carbon? Granted you work for racers and I ride for fitness, so our perspective may be different.
    "COMPLACENCY IS LETHAL - VOTE in November." - System Shock.

    "With
    bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."
    -- DCGriz, RBR.





  6. #6
    'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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    For road use you can have a rim that's much more aero and the same weight. Add stiffer, and I'll add stronger to a degree. From a wheel builders view point they are more accurate...more 'round'. Aluminum rims are much more easily damaged in shipping and handling so you start off w/ rims that are slightly less 'round'.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    For road use you can have a rim that's much more aero and the same weight. Add stiffer, and I'll add stronger to a degree. From a wheel builders view point they are more accurate...more 'round'. Aluminum rims are much more easily damaged in shipping and handling so you start off w/ rims that are slightly less 'round'.
    I hadn't thought of the aero thing, but you're right about that. But since I don't race, I'm not terribly concerned about aero.

    And I guess if you build lots of wheels, having one damaged in shipping and being warped happens. I have 5 wheelsets I've build and never come across a rim not round and true out of the box. But I don't build ridiculously light wheels either.
    "COMPLACENCY IS LETHAL - VOTE in November." - System Shock.

    "With
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    -- DCGriz, RBR.





  8. #8
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    This thread drift is a little ironic to me. Between, say, 1995 and 2005, Mavic rims were the best, most round, and easiest to build rims available, period.
    Shame how low they have fallen.

  9. #9
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    Holy Crap. I assume the close up picture of the road at 4:02 is one of the 'pot holes'.

    That's nothing.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Holy Crap. I assume the close up picture of the road at 4:02 is one of the 'pot holes'.

    That's nothing.
    In the video, it doesn't look like much, but consider he WAS barreling down at 45mph.
    "COMPLACENCY IS LETHAL - VOTE in November." - System Shock.

    "With
    bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    In the video, it doesn't look like much, but consider he WAS barreling down at 45mph.
    That's still nothing. Unless the picture is an optical illusion I wouldn't expect a pinch flat never mind two completely trashed rims at any speed.

  12. #12
    'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    This thread drift is a little ironic to me. Between, say, 1995 and 2005, Mavic rims were the best, most round, and easiest to build rims available, period.
    Shame how low they have fallen.
    Wayyyyyy before 1995. They made the first aluminum rims in the 30's. The SSC was the go-to tubular rim for pro and amateur racers throughout the 70's and into the 80's. Millions of wheels were built w/ Mavic rims for decades. The double eyelet Open Pro is probably the most used rim of all time. 32 spoke, 3x, Shimano hubs...295/293 rear, 295 front. I built a TON of those.
    #promechaniclife

  13. #13
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    Disc Brakes rock!
    Gravel Rocks

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    Disc Brakes rock!
    I'm sure CXWrench can give us some examples where disc brakes overheated and failed on long downhills.
    "COMPLACENCY IS LETHAL - VOTE in November." - System Shock.

    "With
    bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."
    -- DCGriz, RBR.





  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I'm sure CXWrench can give us some examples where disc brakes overheated and failed on long downhills.
    I would be interested in hearing them if there are any, particularly if they aren't the dumbass move type failures.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Wayyyyyy before 1995. They made the first aluminum rims in the 30's. The SSC was the go-to tubular rim for pro and amateur racers throughout the 70's and into the 80's. Millions of wheels were built w/ Mavic rims for decades. The double eyelet Open Pro is probably the most used rim of all time. 32 spoke, 3x, Shimano hubs...295/293 rear, 295 front. I built a TON of those.
    I guess I was referring to MTB. The venerable 231 is where I started with their dirt rims. 264/266 with any Shimano hub! (32 hole 3x, front 261 or 262 2x)

  17. #17
    'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I'm sure CXWrench can give us some examples where disc brakes overheated and failed on long downhills.
    I still see it all the time. It's always operator error...people still seem to think the back brake will slow you down effectively...and for some reason they're scared of the front brake.
    #promechaniclife

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    I still see it all the time. It's always operator error...people still seem to think the back brake will slow you down effectively...and for some reason they're scared of the front brake.
    And that would be the dumbass mode. Curious though, what do you see with such failures, rotors warped?
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    I still see it all the time. It's always operator error...people still seem to think the back brake will slow you down effectively...and for some reason they're scared of the front brake.
    Yep, that's what I was thinking. Using only the rear brake will require more brake force for the same amount of effective braking than the front.

    Didn't you mention awhile back seeing the Al core on discs melt?
    "COMPLACENCY IS LETHAL - VOTE in November." - System Shock.

    "With
    bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."
    -- DCGriz, RBR.





  20. #20
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Yep, that's what I was thinking. Using only the rear brake will require more brake force for the same amount of effective braking than the front.
    With light braking, it would be the same force. There's enough friction between either tire to slow the bike. There's actually more weight distribution on the rear wheel. With slow/light braking the rear is actually more effective.

    But with heavy braking, it will never be as effective. Heavy braking causes the mass to shift forward, reducing the friction between the rear tire and the ground. At maximum braking Nr=0 creating zero friction on the rear tire. Increasing brake force will just lock up the wheel and skid. And of course, if braking downhill it's amplified.

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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    And that would be the dumbass mode. Curious though, what do you see with such failures, rotors warped?
    Yeah, but rotors warp anyway. Overheated rotors and pads and the resultant 'glazing' which will reduce friction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Yep, that's what I was thinking. Using only the rear brake will require more brake force for the same amount of effective braking than the front.

    Didn't you mention awhile back seeing the Al core on discs melt?
    On a downhill you'll never get the same amount of slowing down w/ the rear that you'll get w/ the front. As tlg posted, on flat ground and slower speeds the rear works fine, but when you are going faster, need to slow down more, and are descending, the front brake works better because of the shift in weight. Proof of this is easy to find...look at car and motorcycle brake systems. Especially sport bikes/road race bikes. 2 very large rotors and 4 piston calipers on the front and 1 small rotor with a 2 piston caliper at the rear.
    And yes, I've seen the core melt a little in IceTech rotors a couple of times.
    #promechaniclife

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    Disc Brakes rock!
    Itís marketing genius for sure. Convince clowns to by carbon clinchers (knowing they are a poor choice and prone to overheating with rim brakes), and then sell to said clowns/newbies they need dork discs on road bikes.
    Last edited by Notvintage; 3 Weeks Ago at 05:13 PM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    Itís marketing genius for sure. Convince clowns to by carbon clinchers (knowing they are a poor choice and prone to overheating with rim brakes), and then sell to said clowns/newbies they need dork discs on road bikes.
    OK, Boomer.
    "COMPLACENCY IS LETHAL - VOTE in November." - System Shock.

    "With
    bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."
    -- DCGriz, RBR.





  24. #24
    'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    Itís marketing genius for sure. Convince clowns to by carbon clinchers (knowing they are a poor choice and prone to overheating with rim brakes), and then sell to said clowns/newbies they need dork discs on road bikes.
    Blah blah blah, blah blah...blah blah blah.







    Blah blah.




    Blah.
    #promechaniclife

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    OK, Boomer.
    nope. Gen-X.

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