Velocity A23 rim crack - Page 3
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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Take a 50 mile ride on time trial disc wheels and tell me they're just as comfortable as 32 spoke cross 3's. We all agreed in the listings above materials make a huge difference. 32 spoked box rims dissipate shocks more efficiently than a massive stiff rim on wimpy aero spokes. Try it.

    If all rider needs for comfort are tires, then why are builders tweaking the frame tubing and offering elastomer shocks, et. al? All materials on the bike either absorb shocks or pass them on. I thought we established that in the listings above.
    Why? Umm, to sell more bikes?

    Sure, frame geometry does have some effect on compliance, frame materials and wheels, not enough to be perceivable.

    So do the time trial disc wheels and 32 spoke box rims in your example have the exact same tires measuring the same width inflated to the same pressure? Do tell, Fred.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by karlg View Post
    A little online searching definitely agrees with your experience. I had hoped that a hand-built 32 spoke wheel would hold up better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    When did this problem start? I have 40K miles on a set of A23s (OC rear rim) with no issues (example of one). Spoke hole cracks are indicative of too high tension for the rim. It may be a weak rim or a too-high tension build. Impossible to tell based on a photo rather than spoke tension information.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Take a 50 mile ride on time trial disc wheels and tell me they're just as comfortable as 32 spoke cross 3's. We all agreed in the listings above materials make a huge difference. 32 spoked box rims dissipate shocks more efficiently than a massive stiff rim on wimpy aero spokes. Try it.

    If all rider needs for comfort are tires, then why are builders tweaking the frame tubing and offering elastomer shocks, et. al? All materials on the bike either absorb shocks or pass them on. I thought we established that in the listings above.
    Disc wheels are laterally stiffer than spoked wheels. Vertical compliance...they might be somewhat stiff but how would you feel it? The tire would have to compress damn near to the point of pinch flatting before the rim is going to flex. If the rim flexed enough so that you could feel it the spokes would have zero tension...that doesn't happen. Trust me, no matter what 'people' or 'marketing departments' want you to believe, you can't really feel a difference in 'ride quality' between 2 wheels even if their construction is massively different. It definitely makes me wonder about how much the average joe thinks his wheel is flexing radially when he's riding.
    You can't really be serious with the questions about frames right? How are they going to sell anything if the new version isn't touted as better/lighter/faster/more comfy than the previous one?
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Disc wheels are laterally stiffer than spoked wheels. Vertical compliance...they might be somewhat stiff but how would you feel it? The tire would have to compress damn near to the point of pinch flatting before the rim is going to flex. If the rim flexed enough so that you could feel it the spokes would have zero tension...that doesn't happen. Trust me, no matter what 'people' or 'marketing departments' want you to believe, you can't really feel a difference in 'ride quality' between 2 wheels even if their construction is massively different. It definitely makes me wonder about how much the average joe thinks his wheel is flexing radially when he's riding.
    You can't really be serious with the questions about frames right? How are they going to sell anything if the new version isn't touted as better/lighter/faster/more comfy than the previous one?
    Nope, rider won't feel the 32 spoked wheel flexing; it's going to stay centered and round mainly by spoke tension, not rim size. The wheel will still absorb shock waves, along the spoke lengths, along the rim surfaces, that solid TT wheels will transmit full on through the dropouts into the frame.

    Brandt points out wheels want to go egg shaped as they roll along. This absorbs shock waves. Not so with disc wheels. They ride like concrete. Yep, they'll pinch flat in a heartbeat.

    Guys who ride elastomer shocks say they do attenuate shocks before the latter reach the saddle. Let the bike win Paris-Roubaix, just for bragging rights.
    Last edited by Fredrico; 4 Weeks Ago at 09:24 PM.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by karlg View Post
    A little online searching definitely agrees with your experience. I had hoped that a hand-built 32 spoke wheel would hold up better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    When did this problem start? I have 40K miles on a set of A23s (OC rear rim) with no issues (example of one). Spoke hole cracks are indicative of too high tension for the rim. It may be a weak rim or a too-high tension build. Impossible to tell based on a photo rather than spoke tension information.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Nope, rider won't feel the 32 spoked wheel flexing; it's going to stay centered and round mainly by spoke tension, not rim size. The wheel will still absorb shock waves, along the spoke lengths, along the rim surfaces, that solid TT wheels will transmit full on through the dropouts into the frame.

    Brandt points out wheels want to go egg shaped as they roll along. This absorbs shock waves. Not so with disc wheels. They ride like concrete. Yep, they'll pinch flat in a heartbeat.

    Guys who ride elastomer shocks say they do attenuate shocks before the latter reach the saddle. Let the bike win Paris-Roubaix, just for bragging rights.
    Uhhhmmm ok. What bike has elastomer 'shocks'? You haven't confused a Specialized Roubaix w/ Zertz as a feature that absorbs shocks have you?
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Uhhhmmm ok. What bike has elastomer 'shocks'? You haven't confused a Specialized Roubaix w/ Zertz as a feature that absorbs shocks have you?
    Zertz only work in marketingland, nowhere else. Yep, put a void in the carbon and stick some silicone in there. Nice gimmick, Specialized!
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



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