Wheelbuilding help...
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  1. #1
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    Wheelbuilding help...

    I am building a wheel set using I-9 CX/disc hubs and Light Bicycles U shaped 45/55mm rims, laced 2x on each side. I plugged the numbers into a few spoke calculators and came up with 261/266mm spokes. Ordered the spokes and built the wheel up but the dish was off. If I am facing the wheel on the stand, the disc tabs and 261mm spokes are on the left, and the 266 were on the right. I put a little tension on the wheel and the dish was about 5mm pulled to the right. Being a newb, I thought, what if I laced it up with the 261's on the right side and the 266 on the left, it might work. Well, after about 6 hours of checking and rechecking, I am at a loss.

    Any ideas?

    ERD 549
    Left Flange (Disc side) 56.9
    Center-Left 21.8
    Right Flange 38.6
    Center-Right 37.4

  2. #2
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    longer spoke right side, [FRONT, opposite rear] I'd mostly tension non disk side first and let tensioning the disc side pull back then touch off to desired tensions. Again front opposite rear on disc wheels Pay attention to hops, which should be easy to control with tall rims I'd say. At least that is what I would try/do, and probably would finish off tensioning and truing with a tire mounted with plenty of air.

    Not claiming to be a pro wheel builder by any stretch though... And thus am interested in other opinions on the matte...

    If you really are a clyde [as I am] I would and have done same cross and changed the front disc side to 3x on 28 hole rims of low profile [CL25 Pacenti] after one ri

    Post corrected [after reading Mikes and thinking about front VS rear]

    Apologies for initial fast ambiguous post.
    Last edited by robt57; 11-01-2015 at 04:45 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robt57/Me!
    Everything you read that I post is just '1' guy's opinion, try to sort it all out best you can. ;) I will try to add value in my posts, if I miss the mark please let me know using a little decorum.

  3. #3
    A wheelist
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    Of course the shorter spokes will be on the cassette side. Just stand behind the hub and visualize where the rim should be - in the center of the hub exactly in the middle between the dropout faces. This puts the rim where it should be - on the center line of the frame.

    So the rim will be closer to the DS flange, therefore the shorter spokes go on that side.
    .

  4. #4
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    The published ERD on my LB rims was off on both sets I built. Don't remember which way, but I 'think' the spoke beds were thicker than anticipated (good thing) meaning if I hadn't measured for myself, then my spokes would have been too short by about 2mm.

    On the front wheel, the longer spokes will be on the non-disc side, on the rear the longer spokes will be on the disc side. That said, as long as the numbers are plugged in correctly, put the spokes where the calc says to put them.

    FWIW, the my I9 hubs measured spot on with their advertised dimensions.

  5. #5
    A wheelist
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcb78 View Post
    The published ERD on my LB rims was off on both sets I built. Don't remember which way, but I 'think' the spoke beds were thicker than anticipated (good thing) meaning if I hadn't measured for myself, then my spokes would have been too short by about 2mm.
    No-one should EVER trust published rim ERD and hub dimensions published anywhere. Rim and hub specs change, sometimes as a running production change and if someone forgets to upload the new dimensions then you're SOL. That's assuming the calculator you use is rigged for measuring method used.

    Trust ONE calculator and measure the parts the way that the calculator shows you. Roger Musson's is a good one and it does this.
    .

  6. #6
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    @clyde250

    You left important information out of your post. Info like front or rear hub and number of spokes.

    Judging from the hub dimensions it seems you are lacing the front hub and from your results in spoke length it also seems you are using 24 spokes.

    If the rim and hub measurements are accurate the spoke lengths your calculator showed you are correct and should do the job. 261 for the left side (disc) and 266 for the right side.

    Dishing of the wheel needs to be adjusted during the built not at the end. Best course of action you could do is getting a copy of Musson's Wheelbuilding ebook and follow the step by step instructions on how to build/dish the wheel.

    Incidentally, you are really pushing the envelope putting 24 spokes on a disc front wheel.
    With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcgriz View Post
    @clyde250

    Incidentally, you are really pushing the envelope putting 24 spokes on a disc front wheel.
    Especially if Clyde 250 means what I think it might...
    Quote Originally Posted by Robt57/Me!
    Everything you read that I post is just '1' guy's opinion, try to sort it all out best you can. ;) I will try to add value in my posts, if I miss the mark please let me know using a little decorum.

  8. #8
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    If the dish starts coming out wrong as you are tensioning the wheel, you need to back off the tension on one side and tension the other side more. If you start with the nipples all threaded to the end of the threads, and you're building a wheel that's going to have dish, it is not going to be an equal number of turns on both sides.


    I have tried both methods of tensioning mostly the short (DS on a rear wheel) side first and then finishing with the long side, and doing both at the same time. I prefer the latter- it takes less correction during the tensioning. The idea is to gradually approach the correct final state rather than letting the rim get pulled to one side and then trying to pull it back.

  9. #9
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    Good points by others....... if this is a front disc hub, then the shorter spokes will go on the disc side. You need to watch your dish as you tension, true, and relieve, your wheel. Keep dish in the back of your mind. Use your dish tool often during the build process. If your truing stand is calibrated correctly, you should get a general indication of dish between the caliper arms as you are building. If you have a good feel for what your tension should be, and what it is, you can pull dish one way or another when laterally truing. Only true to the side that needs to be pulled over, as you are gradually adding tension. This kills two birds with one stone, and will speed your build.

  10. #10
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    So Clye250 was when I signed up, I'm 220-215 now. The wheel is 2x 24h, and the measurements ended upbeing a little short on the non-disc side, so I put 14mm nipples on that side and ran 12's on the disc side. Took the wheels out on a couple rides and they are super smooth. Thanks for the input everyone!

  11. #11
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    Congrats on getting the build sorted.

    Make sure you have good spoke engagement in the nipple on the non-drive side. Long nipples don't really do anything in terms of correcting for a short spoke, they're really used for rims with thicker spoke beds (like carbon rims). Essentially, you want the end of the spoke to wind up just inside the rim, very near the top of the nipple. If that hasn't happened, you're likely to have long term durability issues with the nipples. Brass nipples mitigate this, but they don't eliminate it. I prefer to have spoke ends not more than .5mm down from the bottom of the screwdriver slot in the nipple. From the sounds of things, you could have done with a mm or 2 of extra spoke length on the non-disc side.

  12. #12
    grizzly moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by November Dave View Post
    Congrats on getting the build sorted.

    Make sure you have good spoke engagement in the nipple on the non-drive side. Long nipples don't really do anything in terms of correcting for a short spoke, they're really used for rims with thicker spoke beds (like carbon rims). Essentially, you want the end of the spoke to wind up just inside the rim, very near the top of the nipple. If that hasn't happened, you're likely to have long term durability issues with the nipples. Brass nipples mitigate this, but they don't eliminate it. I prefer to have spoke ends not more than .5mm down from the bottom of the screwdriver slot in the nipple. From the sounds of things, you could have done with a mm or 2 of extra spoke length on the non-disc side.
    To further emphasize what Dave said; a nipple that does not have its shoulders supported by the spoke is a nipple that will not last very long.
    With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important.

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