Why not 28mm tires?

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  • 10-25-2011
    Rogus
    Why not 28mm tires?
    I realize not everybody agrees that 25mm tires are faster/better than 23mm, but IF YOU DO, then why aren't 28mm tires considered even better? Certainly there's a point where weight and aerodynamic drag becomes an issues but where is that point?
  • 10-25-2011
    danl1
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogus View Post
    I realize not everybody agrees that 25mm tires are faster/better than 23mm, but IF YOU DO, then why aren't 28mm tires considered even better? Certainly there's a point where weight and aerodynamic drag becomes an issues but where is that point?

    An awful lot of bikes won't take 28's, so there's that.

    And honestly, saying one or the other is 'better' is right up against silly. It depends on surface conditions, rider weight, which particular tires...

    but in the most general sense, I'll say 28's are near the 'too big' side of things. Unless you are rather heavy, and riding on crappy dirt and gravel roads, when they're not nearly big enough.
  • 10-25-2011
    Chris-X
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogus View Post
    I realize not everybody agrees that 25mm tires are faster/better than 23mm, but IF YOU DO, then why aren't 28mm tires considered even better? Certainly there's a point where weight and aerodynamic drag becomes an issues but where is that point?

    They are "better" period.

    I ride a Roubaix and a kg 381 and 28's fit nicely. Only on the rear of a 381 though. The point where aerodynamics matter is when you're a pro racing for a WC. Otherwise it doesn't matter. Anyone who says it matters; their legs aren't strong enough.

    The ride is so much better than 23's it's not even funny.
  • 10-25-2011
    Kerry Irons
    Availability
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogus View Post
    I realize not everybody agrees that 25mm tires are faster/better than 23mm, but IF YOU DO, then why aren't 28mm tires considered even better? Certainly there's a point where weight and aerodynamic drag becomes an issues but where is that point?

    While you can argue that 28mm tires should be more common, the reality is that most high-end tires are only made up to 25mm. When the current concept of 700c clinchers replacing tubulars hit the market in the early 1980s, the tires were super narrow. They have widened considerably since so the trend may continue. That would require a lot of bike manufacturers to offer frames and forks with more clearance.
  • 10-26-2011
    Chris-X
  • 10-26-2011
    ziscwg
    You also get that light bulb effect with a lot of the 19 mm rims out there. That severe "rounding" puts extra stress on the sidewall and increases the chance of pinch flats.

    If you have some of the newer 23 mm rims, then there is less effect. However, you still have to clear your fork and rear triangle

    I run 25 mm tires on 19 mm rims. That's about as much as I feel comfortable with on the light bulb effect
  • 10-26-2011
    Chris-X
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    You also get that light bulb effect with a lot of the 19 mm rims out there. That severe "rounding" puts extra stress on the sidewall and increases the chance of pinch flats.

    If you have some of the newer 23 mm rims, then there is less effect. However, you still have to clear your fork and rear triangle

    I run 25 mm tires on 19 mm rims. That's about as much as I feel comfortable with on the light bulb effect

    Open Pro - rims - road & triathlon - Mavic

    FEATURES
    Maxtal
    SUP
    Traditional drilling
    UB Control
    CD
    Double Eyelet
    Low profile
    Clincher


    DIMENSIONS
    ETRTO compatible size: 622 x 15
    ETRTO compatible size: 571 x 15
    Recommended tyre widths: 19 to 28 mm
    Valve hole diameter: 6.5 mm
    Recommended nipple length: 12 mm
    Recommended rim tape: 622 x 16 x 0.6
    Recommended rim tape: 571 x 18 x 0.6

    As a note, people are running tyres wider than 28's on open pro's.
  • 10-26-2011
    Dave Hickey
    I run Panaracer Ruffy Tuffy 28c tires... 120psi max....I run them at 110psi. My favorite tire....I'm using Open Pro/Dura Ace wheels

    If you don't want the extra weight for the flat protection, the Rolly Pollys are also a good tire
  • 10-26-2011
    CleavesF
    ^^^ running 35's on mine. Not a problem
  • 10-26-2011
    NJBiker72
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by CleavesF View Post
    ^^^ running 35's on mine. Not a problem

    I use old SUV tires. Passed this guy Lance on his skinny 23's. Wuss.

    ;)
  • 10-26-2011
    Chris-X
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NJBiker72 View Post
    I use old SUV tires. Passed this guy Lance on his skinny 23's. Wuss.

    ;)



    Lance knows there are much more important factors in one's "preparation" than tires.
  • 10-26-2011
    bigbill
    I like bigger tires but my custom won't take bigger than a fat 23 on the front and the Reynolds fork on my Peg won't take all 25's. My Gunnar Crosshairs with fenders that I use for commuting will fit 28's but it's tight on the front, especially if the tire picks up some mud. My MX Leader will run 28's. As far as rolling resistance and comfort, I did a ten hour double century on 25mm four seasons.
  • 10-26-2011
    Chris-X
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bigbill View Post
    I like bigger tires but my custom won't take bigger than a fat 23 on the front and the Reynolds fork on my Peg won't take all 25's. My Gunnar Crosshairs with fenders that I use for commuting will fit 28's but it's tight on the front, especially if the tire picks up some mud. My MX Leader will run 28's. As far as rolling resistance and comfort, I did a ten hour double century on 25mm four seasons.

    Congratulations! Very impressive!
  • 10-26-2011
    251
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bigbill View Post
    I like bigger tires but my custom won't take bigger than a fat 23 on the front and the Reynolds fork on my Peg won't take all 25's. My Gunnar Crosshairs with fenders that I use for commuting will fit 28's but it's tight on the front, especially if the tire picks up some mud. My MX Leader will run 28's. As far as rolling resistance and comfort, I did a ten hour double century on 25mm four seasons.

    Do you have the stock Gunnar fork on that Crosshairs? I've had up to a 38mm knobby on the front of my Crosshairs and have plenty of room left for fenders:

    https://251.org/gallery/var/resizes/...g?m=1308538225
  • 10-27-2011
    bigbill
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 251 View Post
    Do you have the stock Gunnar fork on that Crosshairs? I've had up to a 38mm knobby on the front of my Crosshairs and have plenty of room left for fenders:

    https://251.org/gallery/var/resizes/...g?m=1308538225

    I have the stock steel fork. My Gunnar is set up for road commuting so I use SKS narrow fenders which limit my clearance. At one point, I had wider fenders with more clearance, but I found that I got more splatter and crosswind issues while using 28 mm tires. The closer I keep the fender to the tire, the better.
  • 10-27-2011
    Creakyknees
    My racing bike won't fit 28's. My non-racing bike, I use 32's. They are just right - roll fine on pavement, can handle abuse on gravel / dirt / lite singletrack.

    Before I bought the current racing bike, I was using 28's on the other bike, and racing on them. Didn't seem to slow me down too much, I won one race and had plenty of placings.
  • 10-27-2011
    Pablo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dave hickey View Post
    i run panaracer ruffy tuffy 28c tires... 120psi max....i run them at 110psi. My favorite tire....i'm using open pro/dura ace wheels

    convert! :)
  • 10-27-2011
    robdamanii
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Chris-X View Post
    Lance knows there are much more important factors in one's "preparation" than tires.

    Leave it to you to throw doping into the whole mess....

    :rolleyes:


    The big problem I see with 28mm tires is pinch flat resistance and clearing the frame. If you can manage those well enough, knock yourself out.
  • 10-27-2011
    cda 455
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogus View Post
    I realize not everybody agrees that 25mm tires are faster/better than 23mm, but IF YOU DO, then why aren't 28mm tires considered even better? Certainly there's a point where weight and aerodynamic drag becomes an issues but where is that point?

    For me, the smallest tire I should run is 700x28 for speed. For comfort and speed for me is 700x32. For comfort in commuting, etc. 700x38+.

    There's no way I would ride on 700x23 or 700x21. 700x25; Maybe.

    I'm in the 200lb+ crowd (Clydesdale).
  • 10-27-2011
    tarwheel2
    As others mentioned, 28 mm tires won't fit on most road frames and some won't handle 25s. There isn't much selection when it comes to light weight, foldable 28s but there are some good options such as the Ruffy Tuffys, Panaracer Pasela TGs, Continental GP 4 Seasons and Clements. I tried the Paselas and didn't like them because they seemed to have a lot of rolling resistance, but I love my Conti GP 4 Seasons. Fortunately I got my 4 Seasons before the recent Conti price hikes because they are very expensive right now. The other issue to consider is weight. Most 28s seem to have wire beads and much heavier than the foldable versions.
  • 10-27-2011
    Rogus
    Lots of helpful information in the replies. Thanks to all.

    Of course, those of you who've been around or searched already know, but I didn't realize that there were few 28mm choices in the supposedly better quality tires. I had heard that some frames wouldn't fit the larger tire, but now that I've decided I want to be able to use at least 25mm and preferably 28mm tires I will make sure to pay attention to that in my bike decision.

    @ziscwg--I had never heard of the "light bulb effect".

    @robdamanii--Are you saying 28mm tires would be more susceptible to pinch flats?

    @Chris-X--Thanks for the links.

    @tarwheel2--Thanks for pointing out that fold-able are lighter tires than wire beaded tires. Though I'm not sure if this means there are choices of the same brand and size tire between fold-able and wired. I will have to check.
  • 10-27-2011
    ziscwg
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Chris-X View Post
    Open Pro - rims - road & triathlon - Mavic

    FEATURES
    Maxtal
    SUP
    Traditional drilling
    UB Control
    CD
    Double Eyelet
    Low profile
    Clincher


    DIMENSIONS
    ETRTO compatible size: 622 x 15
    ETRTO compatible size: 571 x 15
    Recommended tyre widths: 19 to 28 mm
    Valve hole diameter: 6.5 mm
    Recommended nipple length: 12 mm
    Recommended rim tape: 622 x 16 x 0.6
    Recommended rim tape: 571 x 18 x 0.6

    As a note, people are running tyres wider than 28's on open pro's.

    Sure, but 25 is MY limit I will go with. I'd love a 25 mm Road Tubeless rim right now. I would consider strapping a 23 mm RT rim on if I could find one that was 25-30 mm
  • 10-27-2011
    mattotoole
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    While you can argue that 28mm tires should be more common, the reality is that most high-end tires are only made up to 25mm. When the current concept of 700c clinchers replacing tubulars hit the market in the early 1980s, the tires were super narrow. They have widened considerably since so the trend may continue. That would require a lot of bike manufacturers to offer frames and forks with more clearance.

    +1

    All else being equal, a fatter tire has less rolling resistance. But all else is not equal -- 25mm is the break point for most tire manufacturers, where they don't go any larger with their best/fastest casings.

    Various Continental models as well as Serfas Seca are available in 28mm, maybe bigger.

    Sizes are nominal anyway. Some 25mm Michelins are more like 27mm, while some 28mm Contis are more like 25mm.

    Go as big as you can. My Klein frame will take at least a 28mm. Some frames won't take bigger than 23mm. Why people buy them is beyond me.

    Note that I ride 23mm Michelin Carbons, as i've been getting them at a good price. The 25mm were a lot more the last time i bought.
  • 10-27-2011
    robdamanii
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogus View Post
    Lots of helpful information in the replies. Thanks to all.

    Of course, those of you who've been around or searched already know, but I didn't realize that there were few 28mm choices in the supposedly better quality tires. I had heard that some frames wouldn't fit the larger tire, but now that I've decided I want to be able to use at least 25mm and preferably 28mm tires I will make sure to pay attention to that in my bike decision.

    @ziscwg--I had never heard of the "light bulb effect".

    @robdamanii--Are you saying 28mm tires would be more susceptible to pinch flats?

    @Chris-X--Thanks for the links.

    @tarwheel2--Thanks for pointing out that fold-able are lighter tires than wire beaded tires. Though I'm not sure if this means there are choices of the same brand and size tire between fold-able and wired. I will have to check.

    If the rim isn't wide enough to prevent the tire from "ballooning" it can pinch.
  • 10-27-2011
    Rogus
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by robdamanii View Post
    If the rim isn't wide enough to prevent the tire from "ballooning" it can pinch.

    I think someone else called this light bulbing. :idea:

    OK, so it's not solely because of it being a 28mm or larger tire, but becasue the tire width was too large for the rim. Makes sense. Is the opposite a problem? Where's the point where a tire is too narrow for a rim?